When diesels first hit the American market after the gas shocks of the 70's, they were unreliable, smelly, loud, and rough. They did get better gas mileage than comparably-sized gasoline engines, but in the eyes of the American public, the negatives of diesel tech far outweighed its positives. Diesel engines have gotten far better in the past 25 years, with Europeans buying more oil-burners than petrol engines. $3.00 per gallon gas (or worse) is helping to usher in a second renaissance for the diesel, and Honda is going all-in with a 3.5L dieselV6 for the US market.Honda's forthcoming engine, which should be arriving around 2010, should achieve 30% better fuel economy (or more) than a comparably-sized gas engine, which should alleviate some of our pain at the pump. Honda plans on installing this V6 diesel delight on larger vehicles like the Odyssey minivan, the Ridgeline, and the Pilot. We think the new V6 will go along nicely with the planned four-banger in the Accord, and it will certainly help the folks from Tokyo compete with the many diesels the competition has planned for the near future.
[Source: Bloomberg]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Avinash machado @ Jul 11th 2007 10:02AM
Great to see Honda offering a Diesel option. Hope Ford will bring over the Mondeo Diesel which is also a excellent car.
bmoredlj @ Jul 11th 2007 10:08AM
Good move; I'd like every car company to offer at least one 50-state diesel. I just...like diesels.
Ian @ Jul 11th 2007 10:16AM
A 2.0 L diesel in a heavy van would be quite a wickedly SLOW performer on the road IMHO.
nagmashot @ Jul 11th 2007 10:22AM
2.0l inline 4 turbo diesel can deliver 204hp and 400Nm 1800rpm(latest BMW 2.0l diesel engine) running extrem clean with CO² 138g/km with great mpg... diesel have extrem torque at low rpm and can move things much quicker as petrol engines of the same size.. the lack in knowlege about state of the art diesel engine technology here at autoblock is amazing
Honda Lover @ Jul 11th 2007 10:40AM
Don't forget that many on this site hate hate anything Japanese. The loyal and blind allegiance to American Crap Cars is the reason why the American car companies faltered. The brilliance of Japanese car manufacturers is that they actually LISTNED to what the customers wanted and built cars that catered to what the buying public wanted. I can't wait for the Honda Diesel to come ashore. Finally Honda will address the issue of not having any low end torque!
Ian @ Jul 11th 2007 11:03AM
From all I have heard Honda were going to shp a NA diesel engine. I have heard nothing of a turbo variant for NA in the near future. Have you?
Ian @ Jul 11th 2007 11:04AM
HL,
My present daily ride and for the last 8 years has been and still is a Mazda RX7 1993 twin turbo. (I've just put in a new engine and turbos). I don't own an American car.
Ken @ Jul 11th 2007 11:15AM
No offense, Honda Lover, but your name and much of your post exemplifies the other end of the "loyal and blind allegiance" spectrum. For every reader of this blog that touts American cars as the best, there is at least one reader insulting those people and touting Japanese cars as the best.
Neither statement is an absolute truth. The reality has many variables and falls somewhere in the middle depending a customer's needs/wants.
That being said, I am very happy to see more diesels coming. I like Honda engines and am eager to see what they can do with diesel. My dream is to see turbo diesel hybrids. Anyone want to venture a guess as to who will bring that to the US market first?
Phil L. @ Jul 11th 2007 11:21AM
Note that the 2.2l 4-cylinder diesel is destined for the Accord:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/07/2009-honda-accord-diesel-to-hit-52-mpg/
...but they're working on a 3.5l V6 for heavier vehicles. A 3.5l diesel in a minivan would rock!
Thomas @ Jul 11th 2007 10:32AM
I'm willing to place my order now for a CR-V with that 4 cylinder diesel.
Aaron @ Jul 11th 2007 10:50AM
This isn't that new in terms of news. You'll have all the lemmings who used to hate diesels jumping on the bandwagon now that honda "thought of it."
Solid replacement for their sh*t pile hybrid though.
I'll be happy to see clean diesels from everyone.
Stéphane Dumas @ Jul 11th 2007 11:17AM
Good point Aaron, if it was Ford who bring a diesel here, there'll be lots of sceptimism, but to quote Pete DeLorenzo of "Autoextremist", if it's "holier than you" Honda.....
"The brilliance of Japanese car manufacturers is that they actually LISTNED to what the customers wanted and built cars that catered to what the buying public wanted."
I think they menaged to believe then they listened to us, when I saw the Civic being "bigger, longer and wider" over the years, dropping the Prelude and over the years Accord looking to be more and more like "granny grocery-getter" and being more common (to the point of being "too common") with the same bodystyle (do you wish to have variations like a hardtop sedan? ;-)) well Mazda still have some "zoom-zoom" spirit in their cars (I hope the next-gen Mazda 6 will retain some "zoom-zoom").
And bringing Acura with a V10 engine like the future NSX(?) http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/25/one-powerful-nsx-acura-supercar-to-have-500hp-at-23-5-mpg/ even for 23.5 mpg, I hope it won't have the same fate as the original NSX.
MF @ Jul 11th 2007 11:03AM
The diesels will cost a lot more than the gas version, though--think $2000-$3000 more. Doing the math, for 12K mi/year, 30% FE savings on $3/gal gas gets you about a 5 year payoff timeframe (assume 25mpg for gas version).
nagmashot @ Jul 11th 2007 11:18AM
welcome in the year 2007... long time ago that diesel were much more expansive... most modern diesel powered cars are as cheap/expansive as their petrol powered counterpart..
example in Germany the 2.0l TFSI Golf 200gp/280Nm and the 2.0l TDI Golf 170hp/350Nm cost nearly the same... the petrol is little bit quicker in 0-60 acceleration and topspeed.. in daily drive with rolling acceleration the petrol cant drive away the diesel... and the diesel get much better mpg... diesel 50mpg > petrol 26mpg... the reason why over 50% of all cars in Europe are diesel powered..
nagmashot @ Jul 11th 2007 11:34AM
other good example...
petrol
Audi A4 3.2l FSI V6 quattro 255hp/330Nm
38,350Euro in Germany
diesel
Audi A4 3.0l TDI V6 quattro 233hp/450Nm
38.900Euro in Germany
koncha @ Jul 11th 2007 12:23PM
Saying that a diesel option will be $2000 to $3000 more is not entirely accurate. I assume you are making that statement based on the cost of diesel options in full sized trucks and then rationalizing it down to the purchase price of these vehicles.
A better example would be the recent crop of diesels from Mercedes. The price difference on those models is less than $1000. The was true for the diesel VWs when they were still being sold in the US. The transaction price was much higher because of the higher level of standard equipment in the TDI models compared to their gas counterparts.
Also, the numbers for payback on an Odyssey diesel are far different from the ones provided. The information provided in these comments so far is based on outdated information on items such as typical mileage, option price and even the price of fuel.
If Honda prices the diesel at a $1000 premium, which is the now-standard cost for car diesels, the payoff is much closer than you think. At least where I live, the average yearly mileage on a primary family vehicle is 15,000 miles a year. Gas prices fluctuate too much to give a perfect answer but if we assume $3 and equal cost, we can get an idea. The higher the price of gas, the quicker the return on the diesel option.
The combined cycle EPA estimate for the gas Odyssey is 23mpg. Add 30% for the diesel and we are at 30mpg. First year fuel price for the gas option is $1956.52 and the diesel is $1500. That puts the breakeven just after the second year. Not to mention 1/4 less fuel stops with kids in the car.
For those making this a Japan -v- USA debate, save it. While Honda is certainly making a lot of noise on the diesel front recently, you have just about every European manufacturer with plans for diesels in the next 3 years. You also have GM with diesels for every truck and SUV. Plus, GM has several diesels in the parts bin they can start selling in the USA in the cars. Chrysler has announced contracts with Cummins for 2 smaller diesels. A V8 for 1/2 ton trucks and a V6 for Dakota/Durango. Ford is in a very similar position as GM and has the really incredible TDCi they can import when the market shows the willingness.
h8rain @ Jul 11th 2007 11:28AM
I hate to be negative, but I heard this song an dance before. I will believe it when I see it.
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, outside of trucks, is VW the only car company here in the states that has cars with diesel?
Bryan @ Jul 11th 2007 11:40AM
No, in '89 Ferrari brought a NA 2.2L diesel mini van to the states. It really wasn't all that popular though so they've stuck with the regular petrol engines for the minivans they bring here. They still have great aerodynamics and low weight, so that helps MPG.
nagmashot @ Jul 11th 2007 12:01PM
Mercedes sells diesel
E320 bluetec
GL 320 CDI
ML 320 CDI
R 320 CDI
Mulad @ Jul 11th 2007 12:11PM
VW isn't currently producing diesel cars for the U.S., though you can get a Touareg TDI. The only diesel car available right now is Mercedes' E320 BlueTec (and they're also selling ML320 and GL320 diesels if memory serves).
But, 2008 will bring a few more diesels. For VW, I'm hearing March 2008 for the Jetta TDI (including the wagon version), and earlier news had the Tiguan crossover getting a TDI in late 2008, but we'll see.