Mercedes S-Class hybrid set for Frankfurt debut
In the luxury car market, only Lexus has any kind of hybrid presence, and the LS 600h is the $100,000 king of the hill. The only problem is, the LS600h is geared to be more like a V8 that acts like a V12 than it is a fuel-efficient, environmentally-friendly greenmobile. The scribes over at egmcartech are reporting that Mercedes is gearing up an S-Class green machine, but the folks over in Stuttgart are taking a different approach all-together.
The S-Class hybrid, which is scheduled to reach production for the 2009 model year, is rumored to be powered by a 2.2l Bluetec diesel with a mild hybrid system. The engine should be good for over 200hp and a combined (and impressive) 36mpg, which would be around 10mpg better than Lexus' hybrid flagship.
We can't understand why Toyota would only use its wonderful but expensive hybrid system as little more than a supercharger with better than average fuel economy for the big Lexus, but we understand that luxury car owners expect plenty of power when they're shelling out the big bucks. It'll be interesting to see how the S-Class will do with little grunt and a lot of green, but our guess is that the well-off folks who aren't merely trying to look like they're environmentally friendly will pick the Mercedes.
[Source: egmcartech]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
matt 10:43AM (6/06/2007)
If Lexus wants better mpg on the LS then they should pair it with a smaller engine. But then you would no longer be big pimpin.
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policyvote 10:57AM (6/06/2007)
Actually I think both approaches are commendable. If Lexus' flagship achieves V12 performance with V8 economy, that's still saving something. If every car were a hybrid tuned for performance, every car would be a much better performer and a good sight better on gas. How is that a bad thing? Just a given gas-electric hybrid driveline isn't tuned to make the host car a 60+ mpg miser doesn't mean it's not a step forward.
For the record, my "acheivable" dream car would be a hybrid RX-8. Think about an RX-8 with gobs of instant-on torque and +10 mpg all around. It's such a perfect marriage I'm astounded it hasn't happened.
Peace
policy
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Peter 2:42PM (6/06/2007)
The thing is hybrid technology isn't always a step forward. It works fairly well in stop and go traffic, but if you're cruising long distances at constant speed you're lugging useless ballast around that will actually even hurt your mileage. TANSTAAFL...
J.Crew 11:08AM (6/06/2007)
I doubt they would use a 2.2L turbo diesel in a car that large. I could understand doing a diesel hybrid though as that is very smart.
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Dan 11:18AM (6/06/2007)
Wait, why is it a bad thing that Lexus can use a V8 to get V12 performance? The only downside I see is that V8s are not as smooth as a V12, but the Lexus has so much sound deadening and absorption material I doubt people will notice.
I'm just glad to see hybrid technology making its way outside of the usual goofy small cars (Prius, Civic, etc.)
Though I don't know how well this will sell...larger hybrids haven't been doing so hot lately. The Accord Hybrid just got axed, and I can't say I see many Camry Hybrids either.
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paul34 11:24AM (6/06/2007)
Well, yes, of course. Lexus never intended to make this about fuel savings - seriously, if you can spend $110k+ on a car, do fuel prices really affect you?
It's really only for rich people who want to *think* they're actually doing something good, like protecting the environment. It's just a status symbol - the LS600h is nothing "legitimate" as far as actual hybrids go. It's basically just for "show," so you can tell the Jones' that you have a hybrid and they don't.
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MikeW 11:41AM (6/06/2007)
The LS hybrid runs an atkinson cycle 5.0, so it has the same power as the regular 4.6 liter engine.
V12 performance, Not a chance. It wasn't any faster than the regular LS460, in the edmunds test. It is/was as fast as the BMW 535
Maybe that 800+ lbs of heft it is carrying could be hindering its performance.
The Rx-8 would be sweet with an 8 speed double clutch, so the revs could be kept 7500-9000.
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Mondo 11:50AM (6/06/2007)
I think both approaches, while commendable, miss the sweet spot for luxury hybrids. S-Class and 200hp should never be in the same sentence in this day and age. A Lexus with mpg in mid-20's isn't that great either. There has got to be a way to get low 30's mpg out of a large luxury hybrid and still produce at least 300 ponies.
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Mondo 11:51AM (6/06/2007)
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Reuben 12:08PM (6/06/2007)
Well put mondo, perhaps BMW will take the middleground with its system. Though I doubt this will sell very well since toyota/lexus are established with the eco-people and most americans havent grasped the idea that diesels aren't bad anymore. Nonetheless a diesel hybrid is genious and this is probably a shot to get atention to that cause so perhaps MB can sell many in the long run.
Yeah about the rx8 comments..ill be having wet dreams for some time now, just so long as they could keep it light.
Billy C. 12:09PM (6/06/2007)
I agree with Mondo's second comment. There's really not much to say here.
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jp Rowan 12:27PM (6/06/2007)
I feel that MB is going to do what it does most often with the S-class and that is try out new technology and then it will filter down to the rest of the range, so by the time it reaches the E-class and C-class it will be even better. Thus, this is not just for rich people, and hopefully it will mean more cars that look good and can get 30mph+.
http://www.refinedrogue.com
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hashiryu 12:28PM (6/06/2007)
fuel efficient != green
Diesel engines are misers, yet put out so much more harmful emissions than gas engines.
There are too many people with the agenda of "saving an extra penny" looking into hybrids.
More on topic..a 200hp S-class? Ok autoblog, it may be 10mpg more efficient than an ls600h, but it also has HALF the horsepower. No thanks.
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mike 1:19PM (6/06/2007)
hashiryu: have you heard of bluetec? It is very, very clean.
Also, won't anyone think of the torque? The 2.2l bluetec engine already is reported to have ~300 lb-ft of torque. Slap a hybrid motor on there and you might be looking at 400 lb-ft!
It won't win any acceleration contests, but it should still satisfy luxury car drivers.
rob 12:29PM (6/06/2007)
"We can't understand why Toyota would only use its wonderful but expensive hybrid system as little more than a supercharger with better than average fuel economy for the big Lexus"
obviously autoblog does understand why toyota is using their hybrid system in the ls600h...they just don't want to admit it:
lets get some keywords from there, shall we?
"supercharger"..."better than average fuel economy'..
honestly autoblog, just admit you can't write a post about toyota without including a negative disclaimer.
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Guenther 12:40PM (6/06/2007)
What this does, much like the LS600h is make for a very CLEAN ride. With the electric assist the fueling strategy can be much more gentle. I doubt this car is coming to America. Remember, however, in Germany, a low-end S-class is in the same realm as a Town Car, and the livery market is pretty extensive. I bet these will sell well in the home market.
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Daniel 1:58PM (6/06/2007)
Japanese Luxo Hybrid, German Luxo Hybrid, - so are the American companies going to give away this segment too?
Where's the Luxo Hybrid Lincoln and Cadillac?
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ruggels 2:13PM (6/06/2007)
This really isn't impressing me, or wasn't, untile i re-read the "combined". That's awesome! 9 more combined mpg then the A8 V6 TDI and 12 more combined mpg then the V8.. just dont take it on the highway, I'm seriously doubting this setup will achieve more then 36mpg the A8 V6 TDI hits on the freeway (as hybrids tend to achieve greater in city mileage). Still, very nice... though those A8 numbers also include awd... but still, less emissions is less emissions and hybrid+diesel is what we've been clamoring for (us euro lovers) for a while.
Now... I just can't wait to see the A8 V6 TDI Hybrid :)
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scappy 2:19PM (6/06/2007)
Between the electric motors and the blutec I don't think performance (hp) will be much of an issue. It will probably have some crazy gear ratios to make use of the low end peak torque. Its not always about horsepower.
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Ivan 4:46PM (6/06/2007)
Driving an enormous car you don't need but making it achieve 10% better efficiency is a new pinnacle of hypocrisy. It's like walking into some guy's house and shooting him, but wiping your shoes so you don't stain his carpet.
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