For shame! Tiff Needell makes argument for HP limit
Et tu, Tiff? Fifth Gear presenter Tiff Needell, in a roundabout twist of fatalist logic, has the temerity to suggest that automakers voluntarily adopt a maximum horsepower limit. His argument is a classically defensive one: willingly give up a little bit before the opposing forces -- who want everyone to drive Priuses -- force everyone to give up a lot.
Regardless of what you think of that tactic, the real problem is when Tiff (of all people!) starts saying that cars have enough horsepower as is, bringing up the same points that are used by the people he's trying to thwart. "Today's motors have more than enough performance. Developing models with even more could do more harm than good with the accompanying bad publicity." Tiff? Is that really you? As if it could get worse, he then cites the Vauxhall Corsa VXR and Renaultsport Clio 197 as all we really need: "All have less than 200 bhp, but are more thrilling to drive than some supercars from a couple of decades ago. [They] can rocket from 0-60 in under seven seconds, which means they're easily fast enough for most people."
A couple of decades ago? Seven seconds? Most people? And it only goes downhill from there. You can check out the entire piece for yourself, but be warned it's not a fun Memorial Day read. When bastions of the enthusiast press start sounding like Comintern double agents, you know it's gotten really crazy.
[Source: Auto Express]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Avinash machado 5:48AM (5/28/2007)
Imagine a person who co-hosted one of the most popular motoring shows with Jeremy Clarkson saying this. Well Clarkson is perhaps glad they both are no longer on the same show.
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Kunal Shah 3:18PM (5/28/2007)
What does Tiff drive as his personal car/cars?? I bet it produces a lot more than 200 hp and turns heads :)
nozferat 3:22AM (5/30/2007)
Only idiots think you need 400HP to have fun...
I think Needles is right...the HP wars are stupid and pointless. In case most of you don't know, we're pissing away our resources to no end and no replacement. For what? So some douchebad can drive an M6 quicker to the traffic light by a half second than my lowly 200HP hatchback?
What next?
Nick 5:53AM (5/28/2007)
I blame Fifth Gear haha. It was bound to happen... All they let him drive are little grocery getters, he's been brainwashed.
Look into your soul Tiff, I know you're still in there...
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Deezee 5:59AM (5/28/2007)
I wouldnt call a Bentley Continental GTC a "grocery getter" lol.
Tiff is talking a lot of crap for somebody who just drove off a runway doing 150 with 2 models in the back.
Try that in a hot hatch Tiff! No model would be caught dead in that.
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Nick 6:18AM (5/28/2007)
Eh, the Bentley was a rare occurrence. The past couple seasons he's primarily been stuffed in eco-boxes, with a sports car stuck here and there for good measure. I mean Jason got to drive the F430, Gallardo, Zonda, 997 Turbo, and god knows what else, while Tiff runs around in Civic Type Rs and such.
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Roman 6:58AM (5/28/2007)
Just because Auto Express claims Tiff said this doesn't make it true.
I for one don't believe it. After having read nearly everything Tiff's ever written, this would just not be something he would ever say.
Unless Tiff writes this down himself somewhere, or he says it on TV I call BS.
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bathtub gin 7:00AM (5/28/2007)
Boy, that is depressing - and all he is really advocating is a PR move, so it appears that we are being more responsible. Aren't there enough meaningless PR gestures done to appease the global warming zealots? Does it ever satisfy those people?
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Deezee 7:28AM (5/28/2007)
He must be running for office or something.
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Petar Pavlovic 7:48AM (5/28/2007)
I agree with him. Better that manufacturers set top HP themselves and not government. Are Mercedes, Audi and BMW selling less than other if their top speed is limited to 250km/h? If you want more than that, unlock it with ECU upgrade.
In Japan top HP is set to 280, but you still get competitive cars like Honda NSX, Mitscubishi Lancer, Subaru Imprezza, Nissan Skyline. If you want more HP on Skyline, unlock it with ECU upgrade.
What's the use of 730HP in Brabus or AMG when you can't put it on the road?
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weblockr 10:25AM (5/28/2007)
actually he is right, what would people do if 500 HP cars became mainstream? think of it if everyone is driving an M5 or Gallardo... what will happen... do you think people would be afraid enough to hit the pedal or will the streets turn down to be a Need For Speed - Life?! actually a car which can go 250 km/h is very enough to drive unless you are a thief and the cops own a veyron! maybe then you will need it to die before the cops catches you!... there is enough power to play with cars nowadays... and i guess more power will be a wrong step! actually i've thought more than once about the S-class having a 600 HP thing... and i ask myself how many times in your life will you need this much power... i guess the main reason to build such cars is to make people with fortunes pay... ok... you can focus on Green energy, fuel economy, safety, building materials rather than on horsepower. or you can make horsepower but like the Germans limit the speed. i think supercars will need a speed limiter in the near future.
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frondeur 7:59AM (5/28/2007)
Petar: Japan hasn't "officially" honoured the 280bhp HP agreement since the Infinity Q45. It was essentially a gentleman's agreement. Furthermore, it wasn't really followed that fastidiously anyway...while claimed HP was never higher than 280, many believed the actual figures were often much higher than that.
As for Tiff's comments, I kinda agree, and I think the German power wars of this decade are a good example of engineering knowhow being 99% directed towards power. While I recognize that German engines have become much much cleaner during the same I wonder what could have happened to fuel consumption if Mercedes, BMW and Audi had been trying to best each other there as well.
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The Doctor 8:11AM (5/28/2007)
I think everyone here is forgetting the nature of column-writers; you've got a contract and have to supply something even if can't think of anything worth writing. I think that's what's happened here.
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Bart 9:07AM (5/28/2007)
While he's saying it for all the wrong reasons, I sort of agree with the statement. The guys above mentioned the gentlemen's agreement. While back in the day cars did have more than the 276hp advertised, they were never sold for it. Quality, styling and handling became points of focus. And cars in general improved, a lot.
Nowerdays are different though. Quality, styling and handling are generally good on cars that arent French. I wouldnt want to impose a horsepower limit. If I did want to impose it, it'd be to drive prices down. Not fuel economy up.
I agree with Tiff that it could enforce change, but we already have really good fuel economy motors to pick from if we wish so. Forcing on yet again more fuel economy would cost too much. There just isnt too much room for improvement. With the likely price increases I doubt people are even willing. Putting on a limit without the whole fuel economy agenda seems a whole lot more attractive, and it'd drive prices down. Fuel economy improvement would become natural progression.
Hp is not even a good measure for fuel economy anyway. The US is full of lazy V8s that dont manage 10mpg. Start there. And thén, realise that we're going to run out of fossil fuels. It's gonna happen Tiff, whether you like it or not. And alternative fuels already exist.
Meh I just realised I wrote quite the story, while I could just as well have said "Fuel Economy is a hype, get over it".
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goat 10:39AM (5/28/2007)
"The US is full of lazy V8s that dont manage 10mpg."
B.S.
nissanfreak87 10:29AM (5/28/2007)
Tiff gets a big thumbs down here, I hate how people in the lime light, especially politicians are trying to destroy all fun involved with driving, I consider being able to modify my car and go fast as part of my freedom, now they want to take it away?
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Petar Pavlovic 10:39AM (5/28/2007)
Nobody limits your freedom, you can tune your cars to get whatever HP you want. The question in here are stock cars.
And don't let your freedom endanger other's.
sw 9:49AM (5/28/2007)
Bah, all the REAL car guys know it's not the amount of horsepower that really matters, it's the bhp/tonne
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Steven T. 10:00AM (5/28/2007)
Every so often automakers fall into a horsepower race that in its latter stages starts looking pretty gratuitous.
Seriously: How does it improve the real-world driving characteristics of a sports car to pump up horsepower past 600? Answer: It doesn't, because for most car buyers it's merely about bragging rights.
Horsepower wars have generally come to a close because of some external event, e.g., a major recession or spike in fuel prices. So in a sense it doesn't matter whether automakers put a lid on it.
At issue is how much political damage automakers take in the process. Tiff makes an exaggerated argument, but the basic one makes some sense: If automakers don't "self regulate," perhaps the government will . . . and the public may lose respect for the industry along the way.
Tiff also makes the useful point that raw power isn't the only factor involved in a great driving experience. Remember the crudity of the "muscle cars" of the 1960s? Sure, they went fast but you couldn't use all that power on a twisty road.
A great sports car has the right mix of power, handling and braking. Sometimes the smaller horsepower cars CAN be more fun because you can really throw them around. (So much the better when they look cool too.)
Agree or disagree with Tiff, but it seems shrill to brand him a "double agent."
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nissanfreak87 11:34AM (5/28/2007)
I meant that there are states that give you tickets for having certain modifications, and going fast at the track is fine, on the road is not. I think it's BS, they california gives tickets for certain modifications, the Northeast is crazy about tint laws, etc... I live in Kentucky, we can pretty much drive a NASCAR down the street and have no problems, but if they want horsepower limits, how long until they start telling us what we can and can't do to our cars to make them more fun or more unique?