GM bringing new six-speed tranny to market in 2010
In an effort to keep up with the foreign competition, while at the same time offering consumers more ratios than they can shake their stick at, General Motors has made a pledge to invest $332 million into its Toledo, Ohio plant.The financial infusion is necessary to produce the new Hydra-matic GT40/45 six-speed transmission, designed for GM's midsized, front drivers, with production expected to begin in February of 2010. The FWD tranny will be built alongside the new rear-wheel drive six-speed that was announced last year.
Although the General's progress with six-speed cog-swappers is all well and good, 2010 seems like a long way out considering that several other automakers have already moved on to seven- and eight-speed transmissions.
[Source: Inside Line]
Get a WordPress.com Blog
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
bmoredlj 9:41AM (5/22/2007)
Even in 2010, does a midsize front-driver really need more than six speeds?
Reply
Tool 9:50AM (5/22/2007)
Many GM vehicles have already migrated to the new 6-speed automatic.
The blogger (Damon) is missing the point. GM is simply adding manufacturing capacity so that the new 6-speed can be produced across the line.
Reply
jwhite 10:09AM (5/22/2007)
Too much emphasis these days are placed on the number of gears. You could always just get a CVT and have an INFINITE amount of gears. More gears means more parts and more POTENTIAL problems. For the average driver, the additional efficiencey that MIGHT be gained by going to 7 or 8 gears or more is so small that it's not worth the development and production costs. Give me a bulletproof 5 or 6 speed and lets all be on our way, anything more is mostly for marketing hype than anything.
Reply
anonymous 10:11AM (5/22/2007)
As long as manufacturers aren't making the 6th (or last) gear an overdrive gear more gears are needed.
CVT for the win.
Reply
sam 5:28PM (5/30/2007)
Are you dyslexic or just an idiot?? SHOW ME ONE 6 SPEED TRANNY THAT DOESN'T HAVE A 6TH GEAR OVERDRIVE YOU MORON!
Jeff 10:31AM (5/22/2007)
I honestly don't see the consumer advantage of 6 let alone 7 or 8. If I'm pushing my own gears, 6 is really just one more gear to change than 5. If I'm driving an auto, I really don't care how many gears it goes through. When I press the gas, it should move, when I press the brake, it should stop. Outside of a single purpose sports car or a specialized off-road / towing vehicle, 4 forward gears and an overdive or a 4 gear automatic is all anyone ever really needs.
Does 6 or 7 improve gas mileage? does it do it by enough of a margin to offset the added cost and complexity? I seriously doubt it.
The number of gears is like the number of horsepower. It's more about bragging rights and something for people to debate angrily over on the blogs.
Truth be told, few of us ever push our cars hard enough to realize any honest potential that 6, 7 , or 8 would give us over 4 or 5. I know someone is going to jump in and say they drive their cars to the edge every day. Well, good for you, I hope you don't loose your license from too many speeding tickets or wrap yourself around a tree.
The very fact is the overwhelming majority of automobiles are driven as daily commuters back and forth to work and to run around town. They do not need the extra complexity and added cost the multi gears offer.
just my .02 on the topic.
Reply
Gardiner Westbound 10:27AM (5/22/2007)
The CVT seems to be falling out of favor. Both Ford and GM have abandoned them due to reliability and durability concerns.
Reply
J.Crew 10:59AM (5/22/2007)
I would have to say that this is the nail in the Windsor Transmission plant coffin as they currently produce the 4 speed auto for these exact applications and they have no future product lined up after this production run. The six speed would have been the ticket for future employment for the Windsor, ON factory. Ford is closing two plants here, and it now looks like GM is yanking one on us too. At least the workers have till 2010 to figure out what they want to do after it closes.
Reply
Joe K. 11:02AM (5/22/2007)
I will say when it comes to manual transmissions that it is wonderful to have as many gears as possible to have the pep to get the hole-shot and the added gear up top to not have to hear the car whir along at 75 mph (my car right now is quiet, but at 75 my tach is close to 3200 rpm... Six gear might be nice to have to drop that lower, less NVH that way)... In an automatic that will set into overdrive, my 1989 mercury sable had the best overdrive ever, 70 mph=
Reply
Zo 2:05PM (5/22/2007)
#12 - Jeff. Take a drive to Audi dealer and ask to take a test drive in a DSG A3 S-Line. You will immediately see the difference versus a four speed.
It take a lot of gas to wind up to the top gear of a 4-speed and when does you get that "clunk" and jerk when get there. Most of the gas used in a car is getting it moving because gas engines are at their most efficient when they are at top gear. Getting to top gear is where most of the energy is used.
Hybrids do their best in city traffic because the electic motor is most efficient at rest and uses most energy as it spools up.
More gears like on a bike allows you to get moving in a more efficient way. Beyond 6 -- that is just marketing because the ratios are too close to matter.
Reply
Tim 11:05AM (5/22/2007)
6-7-8 speed transmissions really are not 6-7-8 speeds. Basically, its 1st, TCC lockout, 2nd, TCC lockout, 3rd, TCC lockout... you get the point. They are calling these speeds (TCC between the actual gears) speeds because it makes a slight change in engine RPM. Notice, these manufactures are not calling these "7 gear" transmissions, they are calling them "7 speed." Heck, a 4 and 5 speed transmission only really has 3 forward gears in them. They rely on TCC lockout for the so-called speeds.
This process is nothing new, its been going on for years. The only true 6-speed transmissions are the ones you shift manually.
Reply
Derek 11:56AM (5/22/2007)
So when do we get a 6-sp stick in the 'regular' cars (ie: not a 'vette)??? More speeds is good, it keeps the engine operating in its powerband across a wider range of speeds. Most 4sp autos and 5sp manuals have at least one speed area where you are 'between gears' and you are stuck either revving the engine more than necessary or running at the very bottom of the useable rpm range. More speeds can help eliminate that and make the car more responsive as well. Besides, GM is known for making solid transmissions, this is a good thing and will definately help sales.
I would really love a 6-sp instead of the 5-sp in my current car, but it's gotta be a manual. With the 5-sp I can keep the rpm's under 2000 around town and get 4-cyl economy out of a V6, but when I hit the highway I really want another gear to grab. I know my mpg will decrease at 80mph, but it would improve a bit if the engine weren't nearing 3000rpm.
Reply
Jason H 11:17AM (5/22/2007)
Tim in #17... you are way off base and incorrect. This transmission, as well as every other model out there that is identified as a 6-speed transmission, includes 6 discreet gear ratios, as well as the lock-up clutch. By your definition, these are potentially 12-speed transmissions or even CVT, but let's not mis-inform people who might not know better and mistake your post for a true statement.
Reply
J.Crew 11:33AM (5/22/2007)
CVT's are not out of favor as someone mentioned above. Drive any Nissan product with their CVT and you will understand what a good CVT feels like. The Ford and GM units were not as advanced and they stopped R&D on them in favor of their already reliable slush boxes. Nothing wrong with that, but don't slam the CVT until you try a good one. That technology will not be going away any time soon.
Reply
JW 11:37AM (5/22/2007)
I agree with most of the posters here, and completely disagree with Damon the blogger. Seriously, who needs 8 gears? Maybe it'll get you some economy on the Autobahn, but here in the US, the difference between a 6 speed and an 8 speed is what, 400 RPM at 70mph? Does it do anything for me at launch or are 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears all I need for acceleration? People that would choose a 7-speed or 8-speed transmission over a 6 just because it has extra gears are soooo misinformed, and car companies that make 7 or 8 speeds are only doing it to fool the misinformed.
Reply
why not the LS2/LS7? 11:44AM (5/22/2007)
Yeah, Tim, you're off base here. These really do have that many gearing combinations. They don't necessarily have that many gears, as auto trannies use planetary gearing sets back-to-back. But the number of discrete combinations really 6 or more (plus reverse).
To those who asked above, yes, additional gears do increase mpg. 5 speed increases highway mpg something like 9%, the 6th speed adds 5-6%, etc...
At some point, the additional gears don't make a lot of sense due to weight/size/out of torque concerns. So I think a 6 speed for FWD cars will be a long way from obsolete in 2010. If it is obsolete, it'll be because it was obsoleted by a computer-controlled manual (possibly dual-clutch), not by a 7 speed hydraulically shifted planetary gearing transmission.
Reply
smartmlp 12:28PM (5/22/2007)
6 Speeds are the future "econo" box transmission. 7 or 8 speeds are probably the cap off. I believe that the addition of these gears really pay off, especially in these times of increasing gas prices. Not just that, but they make the ride so much smoother. 20-30 years ago most people said WTF? We dont need a 4-speed auto, the 3-speed is fine! Look what happened? The GM 4 speed is great (I drive a cobalt), but its only natural to offer more in a car over time.
CVT: it has its own problems. Aside from unable to take much torque, it has yet to prove itself in any racing/autocross/drag/etc. It is also very awkward to drive unless it "fakes" an automatic transmission. I would also like to point out that they are proprietary equipment, requiring specialized tools to repair, etc. Thus increasing over-all costs of the vehicle. IMO, the benefits it offers are not compelling enough to make a switch, and GM and Ford realize this.
Reply
icetraxx 12:44PM (5/22/2007)
I think you guys are missing the point, this new transmission seems to be an addition to or the successor to the current Hydra-Matic *cough* Ford 6F *cough* 6T70. The current 6T70 is the 6-speed automatic used in the Saturn Aura, Lambda crossovers, etc. So in other news GM already has a FWD 6-speed automatic! This new transmission will either be a 6-speed replacement for the 4T45, the compact 4-speed automatic used in the Ecotec powered Cobalt and G6, or it will replace the ford designed 6T70. I hope this is a true hydra-matic, the ford transmissions are terrible (drive a 4-speed hydra-matic and then a 4-speed ford... world of difference).
Reply
Dan Kuehling 1:06PM (5/22/2007)
Gardiner:
Personally, I wouldn't base my decisions on anything Ford or GM are doing right now.
Reply
dan 1:16PM (5/22/2007)
A 4 speed auto only uses 1st from a dead stop and 4th at cruising speed. For changing speed from a rolling start it only has 2 speeds. An extra gear makes a huge difference in smoothness. Another helps a little. Past that you are into diminishing returns.
All else being equal I'd take the diminishing return over none at all but from 6 speeds to 7 isn't worth going out of your way for.
Reply