Filed under: Economy, Sedans/Saloons, Chevrolet, GM
Lutz says Zeta lives! Burns less gas
Click the photo to check out a Chicago Auto Show gallery of the Pontiac G8
Barely a month after threating to kill a bunch of future rear wheel drive programs, Bob Lutz says they will likely move ahead but the drivetrain mix will probably change. In the wake of new fuel economy proposals moving through congress, Lutz previously said the Zeta platform replacements for the cars like the Chevy Impala and Buick Lucerne would probably not be viable. Lutz was being interviewed for a Detroit Public TV interview that will air this Sunday.
During the introduction of the hybrid Chevy Tahoe and GMC Yukon earlier this week, GM showed two additional two-mode hybrid transmissions, one a transaxle for vehicles like the Saturn Vue and the other a longitudinal passenger car configuration. This latter model would be ideal for the Zeta vehicles as would the new diesel V-6 announced at the Geneva Motor Show in March. What do you say to a 406 lb-ft diesel hybrid Impala that gets 40mpg combined? The similarly powerful BMW 530d gets 35 mpg without a hybrid system so this is definitely viable.
[Source: Detroit News]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mike 10:40AM (5/03/2007)
"What do you say to a 406 lb-ft diesel hybrid Impala that gets 40mpg combined?"
YES PLEASE!!!!!
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Be Oh Be 10:58AM (5/03/2007)
And many American rear drive car fans (including myself), fell to their knees, raised their hands towards the heavens, with tears in their eyes, and cried, "Thank You, Thank You, Thank You".
It's an important move forward to get these cars on the road. The can do this while giving consumers the choice of having optional diesel, hybrid, flex fuel, etc...types of drivetrains. GM needs to lead, not follow, and this is good news.
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AR 11:05AM (5/03/2007)
"What do you say to a 406 lb-ft diesel hybrid Impala that gets 40mpg combined?"
I say show me the actual hybrid before making such grand promises and predictions. I can't believe how GM and the union have tried to evade corporate environmental responibility by claiming that new fuel economy proposals would kill jobs. Why not build more fuel efficient vehicles instead?
And don't get me started on the Tundra. Toyota's line-up OVERALL is geared more towards fuel efficency than any of the Big 2.5.
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gm 11:06AM (5/03/2007)
so are we getting the diesel engine in the US?
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Rodstar 11:06AM (5/03/2007)
Amen, brother. This is a good thing for rear-drive fans period.
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goat 11:13AM (5/03/2007)
I don't want a hybrid. Hybrids make no sense for my driving style/pattern.
Now, GM, if you offer the diesel V-6 in a RWD car, I will buy it.
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bmoredlj 11:15AM (5/03/2007)
While I didn't insult him outright, I did at first question Lutz's intelligence when he decided to announce a freeze on what are the most exciting GM products in a while due to politics. I'm glad he's toning down the rhetoric, realizing that torpedoeing a product renaissance is not the best corporate strategy, even if CAFE is putting him against the wall.
I now know a little bit more about CAFE standards, and the fact that most of the 250 million cars on the road that have already been built and are being driven will not be affected IN ANY WAY by increased CAFE; it will only affect new cars. Casaba pointed this out to me and I felt silly for overlooking such a glaring fact: Changing CAFE will not save the world instantly, if at all. All those gas-guzzling cars that were sold under lighter restrictions will have to break down in order for that to happen - which could take decades. What's important is that the car industry really look at making cars that get 30 or 40 miles per gallon and no longer allowing big trucks, SUVs and SUTs that are not being used for commerical or industrial purposes to get away with under 20 mpg.
That brings up another dilemma Csere brings up in regards to increased CAFE - that higher fuel economy will encourage people to drive MORE because they can.. If the cost of driving lowers significantly, why NOT drive more? Another unhappy can of worms.
In terms of alternatives, I like #1's suggestion, and GM should form another joint venture (like the two-mode hybrid venture) to make affordable, 50-state-legal bluetec-esque diesels a viable option for GM car buyers. If regular gas prices rise far above diesel, I think people will give them a look.
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Drew 11:25AM (5/03/2007)
"What do you say to a 406 lb-ft diesel hybrid Impala that gets 40mpg combined?"
I'd say, "Where's the rest of my torque?". 406 lb-ft is just the rating of the diesel engine, I would expect the hybrid system to add to that number.
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Mike 11:30AM (5/03/2007)
WOW! Could this be what brings me back from the dark side?
I haven't owned a domestic in 10 years, mostly because I haven't been interested in owning an ugly, underpowered, unefficient FWD blah sedan.
GM, if you sell a hybrid turbo diesel G8, SIGN ME UP!
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why not the LS2LS7? 11:32AM (5/03/2007)
Wow, Csaba Csere is up to his same stupid logic as ever.
Only he could somehow turn better mpg into a fuel waster!
GM and Ford already developed a Diesel hybrid about 8 years ago, on the taxpayer's dime. It was never commercialized because a Diesel cannot qualify as a PZEV (SULEV) vehicle because it cannot meet the emissions regulations. This means the company doesn't get credit for producing a low-emissions vehicle and the consumer doesn't get credit for buying one. So it would seem like an unattractive proposition.
I say this, seeing things like the last season of "This Old House" where the homeowner says he's committed to making his house "green". They show the installation of photoelectric panels on the roof to generate electricity from the sun. The host asks why they aren't installing a solar hot water system, that the sun in Austin seems well suited to making hot water. The solar expert says that yes, solar hot water heater systems work very well in the area, but the owner has chosen not to install on because there's no tax credit for it. There are a lot of people who say they want to help the environment, but if they don't get any monetary incentives from it, they won't do it.
If that means no hybrid Diesels right now, I for one am glad. Putting more Diesels on the will pollute the air more and specifically create more smog, and I'm not a fan of this. In 2012, Diesels will have to meet the same emissions as gas engines, maybe we should fast forward to that point.
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the law 11:35AM (5/03/2007)
GM,
good news on going forward with RWD-diesels. but if you think your gonna bring them out after 2010.then you might as well kill everything now, because that is when Toyota,Hyundai,Vw and some1 else and their brother are coming to play.
is the Buick roadster in these plans?
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SGV 11:35AM (5/03/2007)
Increased fuel economy will encourage people to drive more??!!! #7 you may have tried to question Lutz's intelligence but what you can't certainly do is to insult Csere's intelligence, there seems nothing to insult there.
What encourages people to drive at all is their need to go about their lives. High fuel prices make people more mindful of their driving habits but more efficient cars will not make anyone drive more than they need.
Oh, gee! my new car makes 45mpg, lets go sit in I-95 and do 20 miles in 5 hours.
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mikeb 11:56AM (5/03/2007)
FINALLY a RWD Buick. OK class is in session. Can you say "Sleeper"? "SLEEPER"! ...oh crap, i need a job.
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Russ 11:57AM (5/03/2007)
My first car was an '86 Pontiac 6000 so naturally I've despised Pontiac ever since. Looking at the G8 gallery I'm actually smitten...
I drive a decent amount (about 600mpweek) and was looking a year old 525i to be my next car, but I might give the G8 a shot. (As long as the hybrid isn't vaporware and ends up being reasonably priced)
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Oscar 12:07PM (5/03/2007)
I recently traveled to italy for 3 weeks and I tell you I couldn't stand the diesel fumes, at times I almost felt sick breathing that air. I agree with a previous post, until diesel engines meet or exceed all gas engines emissions to LEV or ULEV levels good MPG is not enough to justify them.
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cowbell 12:12PM (5/03/2007)
Oscar, I too was amazed at the smog in Italy. My wife and I drove around the country for 10 days, and were most amazed at the smog in the north. The smog was very thick from Venice all the way to Milan.
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Yggdrasilly 12:31PM (5/03/2007)
"What do you say to a 406 lb-ft diesel hybrid Impala that gets 40mpg combined? "
I say, didn't I see this alongside Abe Lincoln and a beaver in that Rozerem ad?
Seriously, it sounds great--like 60mpg for the Prius sounded great--but I expect the waking world will be a bit different from dreamland.
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Dausman 12:40PM (5/03/2007)
Diesel-Hybrid?
If it is an engineering possibility and is feasable to build one , I say build it.
Clean (Bluetec type)diesel power is reported to be a very clean burning, efficient and environment friendly power source. It is a fuel source and power source we have NOW...lets use it as a ready available alternative to gasoline. It is apparently more efficient, somewhat more durable and should help us reduce the usage of petroleum based fuel/power sources until more viable power/fuel sourcres are more higly refined and affordable or newer technology is deveoped.
I do think we have a way to go before we see some of the systems being currently being developed, offered for sale. So, again, Build a diesel hybrid or just the diesel....lets use what is more efficient and available NOW.
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Dub 1:10PM (5/03/2007)
@ SGV...
You said it yourself, "High fuel prices make people more mindful of their driving habits"... and conversely, if you lower the cost of driving either by lowering fuel costs or increasing fuel economy, people will revert to being less mindful and wind up driving more. So yes, I absolutely agree with Csere. If you lower the cost of usage, usage will go up, or at least in this case driving will increase (overall gasoline usage would probably see a net decline). I don't necessarily think the increase in driving will outweigh the benefits though, ie: I don't think a 20% increase in fuel economy will result in a 20% increase in driving.
If they're not as concerned with how much it's costing them, people may not think as much about combining errands into a single trip or carpooling in order to save money, or they may take that vacation they've been wanting to take but haven't because the cost of fuel made the trip prohibitively expensive.
And yes, some people simply enjoy driving. Maybe not sitting in traffic on a congested highway as you suggested, but taking their favorite car out for a cruise on a nice road when the weather is nice. So yes, there are those of us who hop in our cars (or Jeep in my case) and go for a drive simply because we can and we enjoy it (particularly with the top down and the doors off).
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jg 1:36PM (5/03/2007)
' I recently traveled to italy for 3 weeks and I tell you I couldn't stand the diesel fumes, at times I almost felt sick breathing that air.'
Its funny how the smell of a diesel can cause european vacation flashbacks. LOL
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