Navistar slaps Ford with $2 billion lawsuit
Ford has not been having much luck with the 6.4-liter diesel engines for its Super Duty trucks of late. In the latest twist of a saga that began in January, Navistar, the company that makes those engines, had added additional charges to its $2 billion counter-suit against Ford.
Navistar has been the exclusive maker of Ford's Super Duty diesel truck engines since 1979. In January of this year, Ford sued Navistar over the price of the engine and excessive warranty claims. In February, Navistar halted shipments of the just launched 6.4-liter engines, saying Ford had stopped paying for them. Ford got a court order to compel Navistar to ship the engines (which Ford paid for) -- then Ford had to recall more than 8,000 trucks because customers were reporting tailpipe fires. Navistar has now filed a counterclaim that seeks more than $2 billion in damages, and alleges that Ford is planning to develop its own diesel engines prior to 2012. There is no indication as to which party, Ford or Navistar, has a better case. For now, though, while the engine issues can't be good for Navistar, it is far more damaging for Ford to have to deal with these kinds of problems with its newly-launched bread-and-butter vehicle.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Powerman 6:28PM (10/01/2008)
This is how it works,ford: we want 10,000 engines /yr @ $2,800each & we want them in 3 yrs for a period of 10 yrs.
Navistar: hmmm $2,800x10,000units x10yr=280M.
it will take 5-7yrs to design,engineer,toolup,make,ship,ect ect & we cant do it for under $3,500/unit.
FORD: we want them in 3 yrs @ $2,800 or we will go with company B.YOU decide how to meet these requirements!
Translation, the only concern here is $$$$.
I have argued with engineers over 1, 2cent screw. 2cents+labor to install-$3=$3.02x16,000 units/day=$48,320/day x 30days=1.449M/month=17M/yr.
You see how this works, dont blame navistar, ford set the conditions & terms.
Navistar was probably greedy, but so is ford.Ford obviously did'nt test the engines before taking delivery! Ford did not care!!
The only concern was getting the parts at the lowest price, & that is what navistar provided! It's all sour grapes!
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Will 8:30PM (5/02/2007)
Navistar is just trying to avoid paying Ford the money it owes by drawing out the legal process. I mean, suing for -future- profit loss? That's a stretch and a half.
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Rolf B 8:37PM (5/02/2007)
This is great americana. Company A makes crapy product for company B. Company B can't sell or keep up with repairs of said crapy product so sues. Company A sues to keep selling crapy product to Company B and make sure they can't fix the problem by making thier own product and mend there sales. This might just GET nuts.
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Barney 8:49PM (5/02/2007)
If someone sends the wrong blueprint, they are liable and not the manufacturer. If they sue the manufacturer, it may be to save face or because the manufacturer didn't follow their design. Navistar may be suing Ford because Ford designed the engine. It may only come out in court as to who is at fault.
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David 9:47PM (5/02/2007)
In my book the Duramax diesel by GM/Isuzu is much better. Awesome motor and quiet, nice and quiet.
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Daniel 9:10PM (5/02/2007)
CAT
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bmoredlj 9:25PM (5/02/2007)
Ahh..."Built Ford Tough" turns out to not be built by Ford at all! Go fig.
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Hamud 9:25PM (5/02/2007)
#3 It may be, or may be not...
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Harrison 9:28PM (5/02/2007)
If this happened to Toyota, people would instantly be saying how Toyota deserves to suffer a huge lawsuit for cheating the American consumers and something about inferior Japanese products with more American content that American cars.
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aSHIRTandTIEguy 9:38PM (5/02/2007)
FORD stop relying on the lack of ingenuity that other companies have! Build your own diesel engines and don't outsource it just to save a few pennies!
It's not the engineers that are at fault for the history of imperfect Ford vehicles it is the accounting department! To solve future problems Ford should FIRE the accounting department. Then more vehicles like the 2004 Ford GT, 1985 Ford Taurus, and 1991 Ford Explorer can be created and thus Fend off import brand (A.K.A. Knock-offs)!
Those three vehicles at their time can not be beat by any other manufacture in the world. As such the 2008 Super Duty trucks should be treated as those vehicles were! Since the F-series/Super Duty series is what keeps Ford at the 11th Hour of their demise! Otherwise Ford would have been gone some 40 years ago!
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James 9:38PM (5/02/2007)
This is what Ford gets, now I am a huge Ford fan and I have been saying for years that they need to build their own diesel engines. Especially after all the problems the 6.0's had, Ford should have just bit the bullet and made their own stuff.
Now if Ford couldn't/didn't want to make diesel engines then I am all for them using Caterpillar's engines!
Bottom line, just dump International all together if they are going to keep playing these games.
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david 9:42PM (5/02/2007)
Barney, Ford did not design the engine, Navistar did. What part of that don't you understand? You seem to take every opportunity possible to make an ass of yourself so this is no exception. Navistar is to Ford as Cummins is to Dodge as Duramax is to GM as Hino is to Toyoda. Now go back and play with your Matchbox cars unless your mommy says it's your bedtime.
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Max 9:55PM (5/02/2007)
Ford should have severed this relationship years ago. This is yet another page in the Ford Folly Diary.....a mistake that will take years to correct. I am all about the way forward plan, but Ford has serious issues with the majority of products they make.
Also, Navistar should be ashamed of themselves for trying to beat around the bush on this. Their engine sucks....plain and simple. They redesigned it, and it still has issues. Someone has to be held accountable. Sharing warranty costs between the two companies seems like a very reasonable offer to me.
What Navistar doesn't seem to realize is that service doesn't end after the sale. If you build a product, you have to stand behind it.
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Hamud 10:16PM (5/02/2007)
#12 Period.
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Steve B. 10:24PM (5/02/2007)
The GM diesel engines are produced by DMax, a joint venture between GM and Isuzu, though they are Isuzu designed. Honda has also had joint ventures with Isuzu from time to time, most notably in the Isuzu Rodeo/Honda Passport, and Isuzu Oasis/Honda Odyssey twins.
Everyone knows the story of the Passport: Honda got caught with its pants down when SUV's became THE things in the auto industry, and used the Rodeo as a stopgap measure. They had a similar issue with diesel engines in Europe... Thus, the deal to provide Honda with DMax engines until they could finish designing the N-series CTD-i diesel engine, and provided their excellent J-series 3.5L V6 for the Saturn Vue.
Of course, now that the N-series has arrived to rave reviews across Europe, GM loses access to the Honda engine. However, it would appear that they have produced an engine that matches the Honda J35 specs very closely. It's even got them new-fangled overhead cams and everything!
The moral of the story? If you want it done right, build it yourself. In both cases, including other's products hurt Honda's brand image. There's nothing like a clunker Isuzu to drag down the equity!
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tom s 10:35PM (5/02/2007)
I have to just laugh at these Ford guys that claim Fords are the best heavyduty trucks on the road. This is just more proof to us Chevy guys that General Motors builds better pickups.
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Matt W. 10:38PM (5/02/2007)
Navistar has now filed a counterclaim that seeks more than $2 billion in damages, and alleges that Ford is planning to develop its own diesel engines prior to 2012.
omfg..How dare they build their own engines when the ones you supply have been a thorn in their side.
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Jaymez 10:41PM (5/02/2007)
With all the news I'm hearing about Ford, I'd never buy one of their diesels. I have one at work that's got lots of problems.
I've also had bad experiances with Cummings diesels. Sensors going bad left and right. Dramatic power loss, etc.
I've never hears anything bad about Duramax, though.
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Barney 10:53PM (5/02/2007)
"10. Barney, Ford did not design the engine, Navistar did"
Is that so! Navistar used Nissan engines when they offered them in their own trucks. Any Medium & Heavy duty truck Ford had , the engines (diesel) were made to Fords own spec (IE: The parts for the Cumins in mine had to be obtained from Ford)
Hino IS Toyota. Hino makes the pickup trucks in Japan. Mine was.
The Duramax is a GM/Isuzu joint effort. Isuzu doesn't make a V8 diesel for their own trucks.
You will not find the Cumins engine in a Dodge, applicable to any other use. It is another joint effort. The C class with the same specs is the one used in Medium duty applications.
Learn your facts before making an ass of yourself, David. You make a bigger ass of yourself when trying to bluff your way.
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Bryan 11:34PM (5/02/2007)
Screw Navistar. The messed up way too many times. Now, someone I know has the new diesel and let me tell you it is pretty nice. Super quiet! However, I think it is a good idea for Ford to make their own. Bring it in house, and let Navistar pick up the pieces. They deserve what they get for messing up twice!!!
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