From show to go: VW brings new TSI engine, along with 7-speed DSG
A little over a year ago Volkswagen introduced their TSI engine range in 138 hp and 168 hp flavors. Those two engines both had displacements of 1.4L with the output of something considerably larger. They achieved this by combining gasoline direct fuel injection with what they call twin charging. Both engines had both a turbocharger and mechanical supercharger. A third 122 hp TSI engine has now been introduced at the Vienna Motor Symposium. The new engine still has direct injection and a turbo but loses the blower. The engine puts out seven percent more power and thirty percent more torque than VW's 1.6L FSI engine while burning six percent less gas. All the power of the TSI engine is transferred to the wheels via a new seven speed version of the DSG dual clutch gearbox. The new box loses the wet clutches of the current six-speed unit in favor of a dry setup.
The new engine/gearbox combination will be rated at 40mpg when installed in the Golf and is also available in the Jetta and Touran models.
[Source: Volkswagen via EuroCarBlog]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Bob in Cobb 10:12AM (4/28/2007)
I love that translation from the German, it cracks me up!
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ANdy 10:43AM (4/28/2007)
Ya, the translated page is quite funny, but you can actually understand a fair amount.
Does VW really need a seven speed DSG for these engines? Seems a bit too much for 122-168hp engines if you ask me.
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Barney 10:51AM (4/28/2007)
Why all those gears and when would anyone be using them all? It's not like the Golf (Rabbit) is pulling a lot of weight.
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Zo 12:49PM (4/28/2007)
All internal combustion engines are their least efficient at low idle and rest. Getting up to speed wastes most of the gas. When wide open these engines run their best. Most of the fuel economy that can be had is in stop and go traffic -- don't believe, look at the hybrids. They are their best in city traffic. When on the highway, they have little gain over any other car. The smooth transition and engine ramp up on the low end as the article states saves 6% on fuel. I am sure this is just the first implementation of the concept and I am sure their will be more. There is another article that complements the above that talks about regenrative systems. Combine this and the regen systems and you have 16% to 20% fuel savings depending on your application.
Combine this with diesel engines and we can easily see 50mpg and 60mpg bio-diesel engines and can finally eliminate this sillyness about electric cars.
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ruggels 11:20AM (4/28/2007)
Um... is it really that hard? A Seventh gear would allow the engine to run that much slower (in terms of RPM) and eek out that much better fuel economy. Come on, Are we all asleep this weekend? Hell the 7-speed DSG is being mentioned directly with increased fuel eocnomony. Sigh.
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tr 11:40AM (4/28/2007)
yeah, i don't get why people think that in order to have more gears, you must have some incredibly powerful engine. it's obvious VW is aiming at fuel economy, pairing the engine with the 7spd DSG.
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naggs 12:16PM (4/28/2007)
i heard that twin charger engine was a pos, this 1.6 sounds much better. the 7 speed allows them to make the engine more efficient and more powerful by focusing on a narrow rpm range. the powertrain sounds perfect for a US polo gti.
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jgp 12:20PM (4/28/2007)
Twincharging is an absolutely brilliant idea.
There's no turbo lag because of the supercharger, and the negative effects of the SC are eliminated by shutting down the SC once the turbo hits full boost.
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jj 12:23PM (4/28/2007)
Twin charging is moronic. The complexity is simply not worth it.
Add in VWs famous mechanical and electrical gremlins and this is a chance for something to go SERIOUSLY wrong. VW is the last company I want something like this from.
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Barney 12:25PM (4/28/2007)
4. Um... is it really that hard?
Your talking to a trucker and I drive 18 speeds. So Ruggels, convince me that the average person is going to be shifting seven gears every day. I prefer a standard and partial to trucks but realistically ,I can't fathom shifting that many gears in town or on the highway to save a few ounces of gas.
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Mike 1:45PM (4/28/2007)
@Barney (and all other Nobel Prize Winners)
The DSG is installed to make the engine more efficient a.k.a. better gas mileage. That is why you need 7 gears.
The DSG is a 7 gear automatic transmission with gear pre-selection and two mechanically activated clutches, not a manual shift gearbox with a clutch pedal.
Between the engine twin-charged engine and the DSG there is about a 10% fuel savings, which equates is definitely a significant dollar amount in todays economy.
As for the engine itself, I have to agree with JJ... I own a Jetta and from the loss of boost pressure under heavy acceleration to the blown coil packs and faulty electrical, I think a twin-charged system is too complicated for VW to handle and I will not be purchasing one for myself.
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KJC 2:23PM (4/28/2007)
#8 LOL, all VW'S?? including Audi, Lambo, and Bentely?
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Toy Yoda 2:32PM (4/28/2007)
What about using CVT instead of 7 gears?
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ruggels 2:46PM (4/28/2007)
"So Ruggels, convince me that the average person is going to be shifting seven gears every day. I prefer a standard and partial to trucks but realistically ,I can't fathom shifting that many gears in town or on the highway to save a few ounces of gas."
Convince you? Why the hell should i Bother. I'm not quite sure why this is so hard for you. It's DSG, that's a dual clutch gearbox that shifts - here's the fun part - IT SELF. YES. Automatic transmissions shift themselves.
I don't care what your profession is, if you've ever i dunno, test driven a DSG equipped car, you'd know it hunts for sixth gear like crazy, and returns pretty damn good mileage as a result. So No, honestly, comparing a semi truck to a passenger car is not going to be some kind of relevant argument. We're talking cars. We're talking automatic transmissions. We're talking seven gears for fuel economy. It doesn't take rocket science, or even a college degree in automotive engineering to understand.
it does take removing yourself from a little box, putting yourself in the shoes of another person who maybe commutes on the freeway and would buy an automatic transmission, because again that is what this is, and those people are the intended market for this, and actually recognizing the benefits. but I guess that's hard for a lot of people.
“What about using CVT instead of 7 gears?”
DSG works far better with forced induction cars because it provides the seamless shifting of CVT but not the constant build up of boost, which in turns creates heat, causes strain on the engine and cooling systems, etc. CVT was a fun notion in theory, though it has yet to see any meaningful practical application in the VAG line up of cars. DSG also allows for more control on VAGs part vs CVT due to the nature of it’s (the DSG’s) ECU and the way in which shift points can be mapped (all 3000 of them) to specifically suit that engine – as opposed to artificially creating shift points with CVT which is creating delay and defeating the point.
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ruggels 2:48PM (4/28/2007)
"LOL, all VW'S?? including Audi, Lambo, and Bentely?"
Yes. Audi's not showing any intent to use it. Lambo, if you follow any lambo news, will never used forced induction, and bentely uses large displacement blown powerplants, what's the need for a TSI setup in a 6+ liter engine?
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Barney 4:55PM (4/28/2007)
The DSG is a 7 gear automatic transmission with gear pre-selection and two mechanically activated clutches, not a manual shift gearbox with a clutch pedal.
Thanks Mike. Did you know that the rigs also have the same thing made by Eaton.Granted there is more preselects and do work with a clutch at the startup. The gears in that device is "less" then a manual. The Allison is as close to a full automatic and has even less gears then a manual. Neither allow the engine to bog down. Truck or car, both use the same principle in keeping momentum. So why not a 8 speed or 10 speed? If you are in a higher gear and need extra power, you shift down and may skip a gearbut with a snall engine and the pause to drop down several gears, still don't make the DSG that much more efficent in real life.
How did you know I was a Nobel Prize winner? Our identities are to be anonymous on this blog.
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MikeW 7:48PM (4/28/2007)
Maybe VW needed to go to 7 speeds because they went away from wet clutches.
Hopefully VW can have a 7 speed for the 2.0 tdi. 5,10,15,20,25,30,35 mph per 1K would be fully useable. 7:1 ratio spread would far above the norm for CVTs 6:1 for low torque, 5.4:1 for the VQ35.
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DKB_SATX 10:57PM (4/28/2007)
Well, the real reason for increasing the number of "speeds" (ratio choices, really) in a transmission is to increase the overall ratio split without leaving big lumpy gaps between gears. In a high-output car, that's so you can get a high top speed and still be fairly quick off the line. In an economy-oriented car, it's so you have enough gear reduction for a small engine to get the car moving in the lower gears, but can leave a tallish overdrive for better highway mileage.
With DSG, you can do this even for mouth-breathing Americans who are too lazy to learn HOW to drive a fully manual car, much less to use one on a regular basis. It's getting difficult for those of us who appreciate the simplicity and control of a manual transmission to find them when buying a car. I'm sure there are LOTS of people with DSG who never (or very rarely) shift it manually. Now that there'll be 6 and 7-speed DSG transmissions, there'll be owners who don't know how many speeds it has, just like I'm sure there are tens of thousands of American drivers (more?) who don't know if the slushbox in the car they drive every day has 3, 4, 5 or 6 speeds.
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HotRodzNKustoms 12:30AM (4/29/2007)
I think around 5 or 6 speeds we find ourselve's at a point of ever diminishing gains. I just do not see the need for 7 speeds in anything other than a truck that needs to make the world spin backwards. If you want to fuss over efficiency a CVT's infinite amout of gear ratios got you covered there.
As for the twincharging, a wonderful novelty but I question any noticable gains over either supercharging or twin turbocharging for the average consumer.
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Buckus 3:43AM (4/29/2007)
Transmissions with more gears are wasted on cars with larger, more powerful powerplants, like Mercedes' S500, etc. The reason the larger cars have them is because it is more gears than the competition and the transmission costs more.
Frankly, I love the TSI concept...with this concept and a 7-speed DSG, for example, a base Golf or Jetta could tool around on a 1.4L engine and get like 40-50 mpg. Bump it to 1.6L for more power and still return 30+ mpg. Of course, you could go the other way, too, and to get the power of a 1.5L naturally aspirated you could use a 1.0L or something with TSI and probably return 60+ mpg.
And to Barney - small engines tend to have peaky power bands, so more gears means keeping the engine in the power band where it's most efficient without the huge jumps in RPM that transmissions with fewer ratios causes. I remember driving a Honda CVCC with a 2 Speed auto...talk about yer RPM jump.
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