Toyota's learning that in the case of the Tundra, American buyers won't just pick from the selection of trucks the dealer has left. It's a role reversal for the automaker used to people accepting whatever Camry they can get.
Former VP of Marketing Jim Farley said Tundra buyers "have a build-to-order mentality that we are not used to at Toyota." Whereas a Ford truck dealer often has an inventory that looks like the factory shipping yard, or has a dealer nearby who does, Toyota doesn't keep nearly as much inventory on hand. But truck buyers want what they want, and they don't want to pay for it until they see it. Toyota and its dealers are having to adjust. The company is using a vehicle pool, swapping Tundras between regions, and letting dealers modify orders. But as Toyota gets to know more of the American car buyer, it will find out just how many hurdles domestic makers often have to jump through to make a sale. It's not easy being number one -- just ask GM.
[Source: Autoweek]
London 2008: Honda OSM concept roadster says, "Cheerio!"
London 2008: Lotus unveils the Evora
2010 Chevy Camaro - Official Details and Images
2010 Chevy Camaro - LIVE from the reveal
Volkswagen unveiling two-door Elise fighter in LA, new sports car
First Drive: 2008 MINI Cooper S JCW
In the Autoblog Garage:2009 Nissan GT-R
North American Exclusive First Drive: Alfa MiTo
First Drive: 2009 Kia Borrego
In The Autoblog Garage: 2008 Mercedes SLK55 AMG
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
mr.ed @ Apr 25th 2007 8:54AM
Many of their dealers sell other makes. Evidently they ignored input from the stores. For that, they have had to pay. But the options are profitable, so not such a big deal except for the lost sales. They might not see the buyers who walked, or the friends those guys told about Toyota's stupidity, for many years.
rem83 @ Apr 25th 2007 9:11AM
I haven't researched the Tundra specifically, but one of the things that has really turned me off to Toyota is the extent to which they "package" their options. I prefer cars where it's possible to select options individually rather than having a several hundred to thousand dollar price bump every time I want to add a certain feature. You'd think Toyota would be one of the best at individualizing vehicles after what they've done with Scion and accessories, but I guess its not cost effective to do this straight from the factory.
BartMack @ Apr 25th 2007 9:19AM
I haven't bought a truck, but I've bought 5 cars in 5 years and all of them were built to order. In fact, I'm so hooked on speccing a vehicle exactly how I want it that I don't think I'll ever go back to 'just picking from the lot'.
DarkKnight67 @ Apr 25th 2007 9:24AM
Yep, it's hard to be number one when your trucks look like number two ... they are going to be hitting the wall when it comes to many steps in this new and unfamiliar territory.
Toyota Tundra Forums @ Apr 25th 2007 9:42AM
I'm not just going to spend $35-$40k on something that doesn't have everything I want. I think this is normal. These new trucks are awesome!
http://wwww.tundratalk.net
2007 Toyota Tundra Forums
Atomicbri @ Apr 25th 2007 9:59AM
I agree with not wanting to pay for it til you see it. Toyota is NOTORIOUS for not having a good selection, often telling people, well we can order it and it will look like this one accept only different wheels, different upholstry, different blah blah blah. I custom order my cars as well BUT I do look at a fully loaded model, then decide what to take off from that....A lot of times, my friend was buying a Camry and the had only LEs and no SE's. They told her look at the pics online. She said it was just not the same as sitting in it and seeing it first hand. If they wanna be number one, give cars to your dealer so they can sell em faster!
Jeff @ Apr 25th 2007 10:01AM
The mentality of "take what's on the lot" and the extreme arrogance and outdated high pressure "this deal is only good for the next 5 minutes", "I have an idea let me get the sales manager", "we're kind of slow today, I'll let you have this car for sticker price just because I like you and we haven't sold many cars today" kind of tactics, and the swarm of bees (19 year old "sales associates") who attack you the moment you drive onto the lot, are going to be the downfall of Toyota in the long run.
My wife likes Toyotas and has had 2 of them. Buying her cars (Camry and Sienna) was less enjoyable than a root canal. One dealership never would give me a straight answer on price, and the one we ended up buying the van through took over an hour to just give me a stinking price. Then the haggling started, but it took an hour to get to the point we could actually talk. They kept playing the "make me an offer" game. We went to 4 Toyota dealerships in the area and all were that bad.
Contrast that to the buying experience last summer on Pontiac G6 Convertible. I shopped 2 GM dealerships and was treated well at both. The sales staff was courtious, quoted a price right up front, and actually pretended they appreciated my business. So far, I've had fewer problems with the Pontiac than I had with either of my wife's Toyotas. In fact, the only issue with the Pontiac was a "squeak" in the convertible top. I took it back to the dealer, they made some adjustments on the mechanism and it's been fine since. I had the Toyotas back a number of times for issues (water pump went out on one, alignment/eating tires issues, power window motor burned out in the first 2 months on BOTH of them, headlight housing that would not align the beam correctly and had to be replaced, and others).
Toyota cars are no gems as far as build quality is concerned. I do not know how they got the reputation of being high quality because the two I've owned both had a lot of little problems that added up to a pain in the back. Then couple the problems with a very negative buying experience and Toyota's run at the top is going to be short lived.
I have had a Ford Escape and a Pontiac G6 Convertible in the time we've had the 2 Toyotas. Neither the Ford or the Pontiac have been in the shop for anything other than the above mentioned squeak in the top. The Ford had a recall about something with the throtle cable and I had that fixed when I had it in for an oil change. No problems at all.
So, positive buying experience, and trouble free cars (Ford and Pontiac) vs. horrible buying experience and nagging issues. Which one would you prefer?
I'm not a "Buy American" fanboy and not a "Japan is great" fanboy. Just relating personal experience.
shoe007 @ Apr 25th 2007 10:07AM
Never a truer article has been written. I am a Toyota salesman and this is a big part of what we have been dealing with. It is a different market for us and the buyers are much more particular. There are more challenges, but there are also more opportunities. There definitely needs to be a change, but it appears from where I stand that Toyota is working on making those adjustments.
The previous Tundra did prepare us for this a little bit, but there are simply more options and configurations now. The option lists on these trucks look like alphabet soup. It is allot for the salesman and customer to comprehend, but it does allow choice once we can find a way to fully exploit it. I currently have two trucks on order that Toyota does not have as a standard build, so I am crossing my fingers that I can get these for my customers.
To a potential Tundra shopper out there I say stick with it. Use your sales consultant to learn what features are best for you, but also get what you want. There are probably going to be some dealers that are more open to getting you the truck you want than others. Also keep in mind that it may take a little while and watch for over-promises. I always try to err on the side of caution. I may lose some sales that way, but I work to make sure that I can meet my customer’s expectations.
rob @ Apr 25th 2007 10:07AM
DarkKnight:
Number two? If I recall, Toyota is now the number one automaker in terms of sales. Maybe not in the U.S., but then again, its hard to convince those domestic fanboys to look at anything that isnt filled with cheap plastic inside.
Travis Rassat @ Apr 25th 2007 10:07AM
I am one of those people who likes to special order a vehicle - I have bought 3 new vehicles (2 Chevrolets and 1 Toyota), and all of them have been special ordered instead of taking something off the lot. I'm willing to wait a couple of months to get exactly what I want. It's also a lot easier to walk into a dealership with vehicle spec'd out the way you want and get a price on it rather than try to figure out if you're getting a good deal on the crapshoot at the lot.
The Toyota was the most recent purchase, and I was also frustrated by the packaging of options. Fortunately, the dealership was able to do a couple of things custom so I didn't have to buy a whole package to get the part I wanted. I just can't justify spending extra money for something I don't need or want. It's just something else to go wrong.
My first new vehicle was a 99 Chevy Silverado - it was a short box, regular cab, base truck with 4wd and the 5.3, so it was a fun to drive truck at a great price. Recently, just for fun, I was configuring a new Chevy truck on their website. I see that they are starting to package things more like Toyota and Honda - even the engines are now considered part of a package. I can't even build a truck like my 99 anymore - you can't get the bigger engine. I think it's a bad move on their part when trying to win the heart of the consumers.
I haven't checked out Ford or Chrysler's configuration pages lately to see how they do it, but I would like to see manufacturers try to keep vehicle configurations as ala carte as possible.
Aaron @ Apr 25th 2007 10:10AM
lol read this yesterday...
Good on them. The truck buying public don't include a majority of lemmings who will buy what is there..
If anyone needs me I'll be over at truthaboutcars listening to robert farago gush about toyota's vision inthe face of this billion plus dollar dryfire...
Brad @ Apr 25th 2007 10:18AM
Having total ala carte options is just not efficient for either the dealer or the factory. There has to be option packages with some individual upgrades available. When I was a dealer I always appreciated a customer that wanted to special order a vehicle.
Toyota Turdra @ Apr 25th 2007 10:35AM
Ummmmm.... Rob, I don't think you interpreted DarkKnight's comment correctly. He meant "number two" as in "doo-doo", not ranking.
White Goodman @ Apr 25th 2007 11:10AM
Aaron: Yeah, TTAC is pretty lame. You gotta love the "don't criticize anything on the website or your comment will be deleted" rule. I had a comment removed once because I questioned his opinion and the fairness of the website in general. I mean how do they justify reviewing a GM car only to post an editorial about how GM sucks right next to it? Or the exaggeration of Domestic faults coupled with the downplay of Asian import faults. Or how they bash magazines for their acceptance of manufacturer ads when reviewing the same cars.... oh wait, what's that on the TTAC home page? A Toyota ad..... hmmmm. I know that by visiting TTAC they get money from ads for my hit, but still it's funny to read the BS on that website. Especially Glenn A the Prius dude. Anytime there's an article on Toyota or Hybrids, Glenn A shows up and preaches. My favorite was when he said the regen braking on his Prius saved the life of a kid he almost hit. Too funny!
Brad: It may be inefficient, but people are willing to pay to get what they want. Especially once you eclipse the $20k mark, and past $30k I'd expect nothing less than being able to buy exactly what I want. Compare $33k and waiting 3 months to get exactly what you want versus $30k and getting it immediately for something you kinda like, but isn't really what you wanted. Seems like an obvious answer to me when you're dealing with that kind of cash and something that you'll likely keep for 4 years. I hope GM and Ford take advantage of this and cater to those who want a specific car and let the sheep keep buying their appliances at Toyota and Honda because that's what Consumer Reports told them to do.
fd @ Apr 25th 2007 11:23AM
#7 Jeff.
That has been my experience with every US car dealership I have walked into! I rather go to a dentist and get several root canals than shop for a car!
It's always a hassle to look at a variety of cars in the price range or model. No, we don't have any catalogs. No upfront price clarity on any of them. Vague circles around the MRSP and charges for the "dealer extras". What price do you want to pay? Make us an offer and we'll consider it. What does it take for you to drive this car off the lot today? I need to check this manager. Let me work some numbers.
All this is absolutely infuriating.
If I wanted to, I could pay cash for any car I'm interested in.
I much prefer the more transparant approach, no hassle, free to look, ... approach I was used to in Europe. Walk in. Have a chat. Receive the catalog and the basic price list. Sit in the vehicles in the showroom. Drive one or two. Note that they don't have the 100s & 1000s of cars at the dealerships. Maybe one or two dozen. Two to three for each model. So you will need flexible mentally if you want a basic or mid range with certain options. On some German cars the option list is a small booklet.
No destination or other inflated items like dealer extras to worry about. They have the nationwide MSRP, which includes 25% tax, and the dealer will work down from that price themselves. You don't have to jump through hoops for an hour before they put a number on paper. This is car is this much 'list' and we'll give it to you for x less. And you can very quickly comparison shop. You just call another dealer and say how much for this model with xyz.
The option grouping is common on European brands, so I guess it is more of a global thing. I don't like either if option x can only be had as part of package xyz; and you don't want yz.
I guess it did help that, from what I could tell, but this may have changed since I moved, that most financing is through banks. Not the manufacturer or the dealership acting as the middle man.
Todd @ Apr 25th 2007 11:23AM
The idea that Americans want to get what they want when they are spending $30-40K on a product shouldn't come as a surprise. I recently was looking to buy a Pontiac Torrent for my wife, we spec'd it out online, went to our local dealership said 'this is what i want'. He searched other dealerships and said he could have it to by Monday. That's the way car/truck buying should be. There shouldn't be this artificial scarcity placed on the vehicles just so the dealership can pressure you into buying the one they have. In fact even if they can't find what I want built, I would expect that they can have one built and delivered to be in no more than two weeks. It doesn't take long to assemble a vehicle and then upto a week to deliver it accross the country.
I have pondered the idea of a buying a car online. We are all familier with the build and price a car online that the car manufacturers have, but the last step need to be 'schedule a test dive of this car'. Then you would schedule a time for the truck (or two) to be delivered to you (on a trailer) so you can test drive it from your home or office. They would bring the truck with the exact options i wanted.
The dealership could save the costs of owning land in a prime location and have one large lot for a metro area in the nearby rural land that's a lot cheaper. Buying a new car or truck shouldn't be a painful experience. Actually it should be very rewarding because you are able to customize a car more than most products you buy, so you can get exactly what you want.
Richard Warren @ Apr 25th 2007 11:35AM
Duh, so much for homework.
rem83 @ Apr 25th 2007 11:48AM
Travis,
I was looking at building a truck on Chevy's website and was also frustrated by their packaging. I went over to GMC's website on a whim, and it looks like their vehicles are much more customizable. I guess there is a reason they maintain separate brands (although that's not a very good reason in my opinion).
Brad @ Apr 25th 2007 11:55AM
Todd, I know having a vehicle specially built and delivered in under two weeks sounds like a great idea but it just won't happen. The shortest time I ever had a special order delivered was four weeks. The plant just can't take a single vehicle and place it on a roll back truck and say "take this to this place".
There are numerous inspection stops, shipping by rail stops, then when it arrives at the rail yard it takes several days just to get it on a truck, then to get a driver to pick that load and deliver it to the dealer.
Maybe one day delivery time will drop down but I don't see that happening as long as the Teamsters and the rail unions have anything to say about it.
Todd @ Apr 25th 2007 12:32PM
Brad,
I'm well aware of many challenges of getting vehicles assembled to dellivered in two weeks, but I don't think it's an unreasonable goal. We've been able to cut down the shipping time from goods from Asia to the US particually by Walmart and Target. Many thought it just had to take months to get those goods and that it would never change.
You said that uner today's process you were able to get a vehicle in 4 weeks. By saying you don't think we can down to 2 weeks, thats basically saying that you think the process is currently running a near optimum efficiency, which I don't think you believe. Also if more dealerships were open to trading vehicles it would help the supply chain as when I spec out a vehicle, I don't care if it comes off a lot 1,000 miles away or straight from the factory.
I think the industry is moving towards being able to deliver vehicles quicker, but they have been focusing on the design and engineering aspects so vehicles don't take as long to go from concept to production. This is also important in allowing consumers to choose what they want.
I won't dispute your comment about the unions being a roadblock to progress.