Spy Shots: Audi RS5
The Audi A5 and S5 were neck-and-neck with the BMW M3 as the most significant unveilings at the Geneva Motor Show in March. On a real race track, though, the M3 would pull away at the start and probably win in a walk. The race would be a lot more interesting with an RS5 thrown into the mix, powered by the 420 hp V8 sourced from the RS4, and plenty of weight-saving technology.
We told you a few weeks ago that Audi was planning to expand the A5 lineup to include droptop and RS models, and this mule might be Audi's wolf in sheep's clothing. The folks over at CAR obtained photos of the test vehicle, which looks like the S5, but with plenty of test gear attached. A5 engineering boss Stefan Härdl tells CAR Online that the layout of the A5 allowed the front axle to be moved forward by 120mm, which improves weight distribution by moving more to the rear of the car. Härdl thinks the resulting 55/45 split helps give the RS5 better handling than the RS4. Also expected is the rear-biased quattro AWD system, which is a necessity with this kind of horsepower.
The Autoblog staff is split on the looks of the A5, but we can all agree that a 400+ horsepower RS5 get us leaning in the Audi's direction.
[Source: CAR]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
naggs 4:13PM (3/28/2007)
my kneejerk reaction is "bah, an RS audi will be at home on the autobahn, not a competator to the m3" but audi has seriously turned it around recently. i still think the only way to go is f/r but audi is making a serious attempt at making awd work in all out performance machines. i suppose its suicide to try to take BMW and porsche head on, awd serves to avoid that.
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ArchAngel 5:23PM (3/28/2007)
I would take that car over the M3 any day.
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bgdc 4:22PM (3/28/2007)
**** Also expected is the rear-biased quattro AWD system, which is a necessity with this kind of horsepower.****
Or how about Audi just make a freaking RWD car and spare us their lousy, heavy AWD system?
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DPC car videos 4:31PM (3/28/2007)
I still think the M3 will be faster due to lighter weight and none AWD. But I would take the RS5 over the M3 just because I love Audi and I have not owned any car that is not AWD since 1995. Once you live with a high horsepower AWD car it is hard to go back to 2WD.
http://www.dpccars.com
DPCcars
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leo 11:39PM (3/28/2007)
please AWD is just for those that haven't learned how to dirve yet, adn want their car to save them.
it's just a laousy excuse from Audi since tehy don't want to spend the $$ to make a RWD chasis that will still be inferior to BMW and now Infiniti
Audi go back to the drawing board,
this car is a bar of soap design
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Mike 5:20PM (3/28/2007)
OMG!!!!! I'm all excited like a litte kid right now the RS4 is my dream car but that will definitely be replaced by the RS5 if it's true! I would pick one of these up before an M3 or C-Class AMG in a heartbeat!
And you guys must be kidding about those Quattro comments the Audi AWD is amazing...
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bgdc 5:28PM (3/28/2007)
Mike, track an AWD car, then a RWD car. One is fun, the other...not so.
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Chris 9:49PM (3/28/2007)
i like how you all miss the point changing Layouts costs money, lots of money. And anyway no one here knows how fast the M3 is going to be or how fast the RS5 is going to be.
Anyway if you live where there is a lot of snow and rain you need AWD. And when it comes to snow and rain it's there that an AWD car shines and will usually beat the RWD car.
I just wish they would bump the power up a little more.
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AKgrown 6:24PM (3/28/2007)
I'm all for new Audi models (patiently waiting for a TDI A8 in the US), but somehow the design on this one reminds me of a balsa wood racer I made in cub scouts 20 years ago...
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ruggels 8:27PM (3/28/2007)
"Or how about Audi just make a freaking RWD car and spare us their lousy, heavy AWD system?" Why? it's already proven itself, the current M3 is slower then the current RS4, audi's goal isn't to ape bmw, it's to provide a different driving experience. if you don't like it, buy an m3. if you do like the assurance of all wheel drive buy an rs4 or rs5. just because i prefer awd doesn't mean i'll be calling on bmw to make the next m3 with it, that's stupid.
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crossphaded 9:14PM (3/28/2007)
As long as they add the flared out fender treatment, wider wheels, and shed some of the "fat" that the RS4 has, to go along with the rear-biased Quattro, and the motor moved back behind the front axle, this car will be a winner and will give the E92 M3 a run ofr its money. *crossing fingers*
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narfizzle 9:51PM (3/28/2007)
I saw a mule of the Audi A5 last week on the 134 Freeway here in Los Angeles. I took pictures and a video on my cell phone camera.
If anyone is interested in pictures and the video email me at n a r e k 8 [at] g m a i l [dot] c o m
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bgdc 10:02PM (3/28/2007)
The RS4 is a fat pig at 4k lbs. My fear is the RS5 will be the same. That's not a sports vehicle, imho. With an advantage of over 80 hp the RS4 runs to 60 barely ahead of a 1999 derived M3 with a peaky 3.2 inline 6. In track testing the M3 still reigns supreme as the RS4's weight serves as a detriment to hp-to-weight, acceleration and handling.
If the new M3 even stays close to the fat-ass e92 335i's rotund weight that car will be a terror. The should be lighter given the 4.0 is lighter and the car is using more carbon fiber than the M3. We'll see. Sub 3500 lbs seems likely though. The RS4 will probably ring in near 4k like the overweight RS4.
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naggs 12:25AM (3/29/2007)
"And anyway no one here knows how fast the M3 is going to be or how fast the RS5 is going to be."
all else being equal, the lighter weight rwd car will be faster than the awd car.
"Anyway if you live where there is a lot of snow and rain you need AWD. And when it comes to snow and rain it's there that an AWD car shines and will usually beat the RWD car."
no you dont NEED awd, you NEED winter tires. who races in the rain and snow? the m3 is a car that workes best at 9/10ths where as most s and rs audis work best at 7/10ths. thats rwd vs awd in a nutshell.
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ObsessedAudiFan 11:39PM (3/28/2007)
Some of you really haven't driven an AWD car for very long have you. wow the comments above are really off base. Now I don't want to go through this handbags at dawn routine that so often happens between BMW and Audi, which honestly comes down to functionality versus well whatever BMW have. I would rather just point out the obviously false statements above.
@bgdc (aka BMW fanboy) "In track testing the M3 still reigns supreme as the RS4's weight serves as a detriment to hp-to-weight, acceleration and handling." Ummmm sure thing pal. Glad you pull that one out of thin air. As for the weight on the RS5, it will be just as heavy as the RS4. I can almost guarantee that. A lot of the weight is because of the AWD and the tranny and that is ubiquitous across RS models.
"Or how about Audi just make a freaking RWD car and spare us their lousy, heavy AWD system?"
ummm, no? funny that you didn't mention this to porsche or lamborghini. Both which have their high end cars with AWD. how about they stick to what's made them a hell of a lot of money, and not take your ridiculous advice. Audi = Quattro. Clearly 25 years of marketing and racing results haven't sunk in yet. For most Audi owners we love three things. Handling at high speeds, interior comfort and functionality. Three things that are subpar in a BMW (Audi being the benchmark). As for whether it's more fun; that's all subjective, but I can see how the ass of my car sliding all over the place could be construed as fun.
@niggs "i still think the only way to go is f/r but audi is making a serious attempt at making awd work in all out performance machines. i suppose its suicide to try to take BMW and porsche head on, awd serves to avoid that."
where have you been? taking them on head on? making a serious attempt? ok! Clearly you've missed porsche going AWD, or any of the RS models the last ten years. You're right, Audi developed AWD so that they didn't have to go head on with BMW, not because it was better.
___________
I love the abuse the RS4 is taking also. pure class. The m5 (not even the new M3) is slower
around a track than the RS4 and the numbers speak for themselves even with the hp disadvantage (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=119784). It's a popular comparison and it has been proven on multiple occassions. Enjoy that read.
I'll take the better handling, safety and the functional Audi any day and twice on Sunday.
Weight or not, there are so many more reasons to buy an Audi over a BMW, and my trip to vermount two weeks ago is easily the first on my
list. I'm not sure who these people are that orgasm over a one second difference in their lap times, but for me if I can only use the car on
the track (or five months out of the year) it's useless and that is what BMW is worth to me. Once you go AWD, you don't go back. Let alone the interior finishing, and the exterior styling which is subdued and in no way flashy, unlike the new M series. What ever happened to the M5 i use to know that was the true sleeper.
-Audi Fanboy
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Ivan 2:26AM (3/29/2007)
I think most of you have never watched the old European Tourism Championship, with the first version of the A4 after the Audi 80 in the early 90s. At that time, Audi used 4WD on the track, and their domain were so overwhelming, that the FIA banned the use of 4WD on that championship. Moreover, I don't remember now how many rounds they used to do, but after every win, the car was charged with a dead weight of 40Kg everytime, and they won always. So, with the same power/weight ratio, 4WD always rules.
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Ivan 2:30AM (3/29/2007)
My apologies, I should say same weight and same power instead of power/weight ratio.
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bgdc 2:43AM (3/29/2007)
@ObsessedAudiFan - huh, we own an Audi right now. I've owned two BMWs. The Audi is fun but it's more concerned with having a plush interior than actual sporting notions. Most audis suffer from serious bloat. The RS4 is extremely overweight for a car of that size. 4k lbs is criminal in a car claiming to be sporty.
Porsche has an AWD car yet the most popular race-worthy 911s happen to be the GT2 and GT3. Racers don't want the 911 turbo expressly because of the AWD system.
Audi's had Quattro for more than 25 years. Subaru's always had it. Doesn't change the fact that I don't like the weight and shifting power of AWD. I'll take a solid RWD car over an AWD car any day. The benefits of AWD - better traction in poor weather - are squashed by all the negatives (weight, gas mileage, binding, transfer of power, etc).
The M3 at worst will ring in at 3600 lbs. that'll make it significantly lighter than the RS4 but with the same power. The e9x chassis on just the basic e90/e92s with BMW's spongy soft sport package (ZSP) returns handling levels nearly on par with the RS4 - http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=115689/pageId=98163 and http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=117669/pageId=105658 . The e9x M3 will be lighter than those cars and feature a far better suspension layout.
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MikeW 7:27PM (3/29/2007)
If the last RS4 was 58/42 this one will only be 56/44 at best.
It still has enough overhang
http://gallery.audiworld.com/gallery/album302/S5070019_medium
old
http://gallery.audiworld.com/gallery/album119/RS4060020?full=1
120mm, no.
So A5 vs. 328xi, S5 vs 335xi, RS5 vs m3? same old, same old.
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Matt 11:30AM (3/29/2007)
Racers would always chose AWD if it were legal in any racing series. Read stories about Audis racing in the Trans Am series and later in the IMSA GTO class in the US in the late '80s or early '90s. The Audis could pass the other cars at will (often times with two wheels in the grass). The vehicles were outlawed just as they would be in the BTCC.
AWD is superior in racing for this simple fact: a tire only has so much grip. That grip can be used to either corner at maximum grip, accelerate at maximum grip, or some balance of the two. A rear wheel drive car can only use two tires to accelerate and so the front tires are really going to waste. Thus the narrower front tires on many race cars. AWD allows a car to accelerate out of a corner sooner.
Furthermore, having the left and right wheels connected through some sort of limited-slip differential reduces wheel lockup and the flat spotting that occurs during heavy braking when the inside tire is not loaded. In at least two instances I can recall, engineers have placed limited slip differentials between two non-driven wheels just to increase braking efficiency (Audi in the BTCC after AWD was outlawed and an F1 team in recent years (maybe BAR/Honda) and I think that was outlawed as well).
Also, if you actually live somewhere where there's real weather, you'd chose an Audi. Snow tires are one thing, but Audi Quattro is a something completely different.
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