Audi considering dropping out of ALMS?
Despite racking up its eigth victory in a row at last weekend's 12 Hours of Sebring, Audi is reportedly considering dropping out of the American Le Mans Series. Rumors of Audi yanking its unbeatable R10s from competition in the U.S. have been swirling ever since last season when race organizers began changing rules to slow down the Audis and give their competition a hope in hell of winning. Those revisions didn't work and the Audis kept winning.
ALMS organizers also instituted "special" rules for the Audi in last weekend's running of the 12 Hours of Sebring, forcing the R10s to run with a smaller fuel cell that held 81 instead of 90 liters of diesel. Changes like this slow the Audi R10s enough to bring them within spitting distance of the LMP2 class that is incredibly competitive this year thanks to the arrival of Acura on the scene. From Audi's perspective, the temporary rule changes instituted at Sebring apparently were not in line with what it considers fair racing. As such, the German automaker is reviewing where it stands with the American Le Mans Series.
We would hate to see Audi pull out of ALMS, even though it dominates every single race it enters. Ideally, ALMS should be recruiting more competitive LMP1 contenders, or perhaps it could institute a new class of diesel-powered racers called LMD1. We hear the French might be interested.
BTW – FTW
[Source: Yahoo Sports Germany via German Car Blog]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Phelix 1:31PM (3/21/2007)
I hope they don't pull out. The appeal of the AMLS is the competition between manufacturers. You kill that appeal when you pass rules that punish innovation.
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geo.stewart 1:08PM (3/21/2007)
In light of the article, I'm not quite sure which application of FTW Audi is referring to
;-)
The Audi R8 is now officially in the same league as the Ford GT40s and Porsche 917s as unstoppable/ unbeatable without interference.
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purecoda 2:02PM (3/21/2007)
Either the same rules apply to everybody or nobody. That is fair racing. If I were Audi I wouldn't want to put up with that BS either. You don't improve the competition (or technology innovations) by lowering the bar, you improve them by raising it.
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felonious monk 1:11PM (3/21/2007)
Audi's pull out certainly wouldn't be great for the health of the series, but it wouldn't hurt it terribly either. It's time to move on.
One can only stare in awe for so long. About 4 years too long.
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Tal 1:20PM (3/21/2007)
Audi could not be blamed for pulling out if special rules continue to be imposed on them just to equalize every other racers chances of winning. That is not what racing is about.
To the world and I hope to the U.S. market, Audi prowess is proving the power, durability, endurance and quality of the DIESEL engine.
We need more diesel power for our everday automobiles but American dealers/manufactuers are reluctant to deal with them.
Why are the Europeans so dedicated to diesel power?
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Gale 1:24PM (3/21/2007)
ALMS officials came from IMSA and still remember the "Porsche parade" days in the 70s and 80s. Better racing unfortunately comes from more control, not less (eg: NASCAR). It's a shame because Audi had turned in one of the most impressive and dominating performances in racing history.
Underneath the skin all NASCAR racers are 95% tghe same, with the engine block casting being the only differentiating piece. By comparison, trying to legislate in closeness seems tame, yet while NASCAR gets a pass, ALMS gets roasted for it. Strange!
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Gardiner Westbound 1:32PM (3/21/2007)
Audi can win on the racetrack but not in the back rooms. It should pull out while it's at the top of its game.
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Lee Gibson 2:13PM (3/21/2007)
"By comparison, trying to legislate in closeness seems tame, yet while NASCAR gets a pass, ALMS gets roasted for it. "
Clearly, I'm not the person giving passes, because NASCAR sure wouldn't get one.
There's more street-bound technology in ALMS than in NASCAR, and that's what I like to see.
Then again, the race this weekend was in GT2. Ferrari vs. Porsche...wow. THAT is racing. NASCAR is turning left a lot of times.
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why not the LS2/LS7? 2:25PM (3/21/2007)
Fine. Good riddance.
81 liters isn't "special", BTW. Their fuel cell still contains more energy than the equivalent gas ones. BTW, word is ACO has selected 81L for Diesels at Le Mans this year, making this not all that "special".
Last year at Le Mans, Audi was going 2 more laps than everyone else on a tank. And at times it seemed like they could easily make 3. A lap at Le Mans being 8.6 miles, BTW. Most cars in P1 go 12 laps. Audi could go 14. In 380 laps, you'll stop 31 times. Audi will stop 27. Given that stops take two minutes (more if you change drivers), there's no way to compete with that.
I would agree the R8 has reached the legendary stage of unbeatable without restriction. An R8 without its restrictions would obliterate the R10. The R10 is far from unbeatable. Without the advantageous rules for Diesel which were meant for companies like the Caterpillar team (who ran a Toureg engine), Audi couldn't campaign the R10 effectively.
The rules are the same for all teams. 6L max displacement w/no turbos. 4.0L max displacement with turbos.
Well, except for Audi (and now Peugeot). They get a 5.5L engine with turbos. 2.94Bar of boost to be specific. They get a gas thank which had over 25% more energy in it than any other car (and still has over 10% more). The minimum weight of all P1 cars was increased because the R10 couldn't make the min weight (as other cars could). Audi gets an intake restrictor 50% larger than other LMP1 cars.
ACO reduced the size of the P2 restrictors 5% this year to slow those cars down relative to P1.
The short version is this. If Audi doesn't like it, I for one will be glad to see them go. It's nice where there is an actual contest for the overall win, and with the current rules for Diesels and the fact that Audi and Peugeot don't sell their engines to customer cars, it means there is no contest for the overall win right now.
If it takes slowing P1 to make it a contest, I'm for it. If that means Audi leaves, that's just the way it will have to be.
The team with by far the most advantageous rules needs to stop griping that their advantage is being taken away.
Maybe they could concentrate on not getting penalties in the pits next year at Sebring instead of complaining that even with their foul-ups they still were unreachably ahead with 1 hour to go (at which point, Acura slowed down due to a bum gearbox).
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grimey559 2:28PM (3/21/2007)
"Special" rules were not instituted for the R10. The 81 liter fuel tank for the diesel R10 is from the ACO rules(as in Le Mans 24 Hrs). Audi's complaint is that IMSA didn't institute the ACO 5% restriction on LMP2 cars. IMSA has not slowed the R10. Audi is made that the LMP2 cars have not been slowed
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Dan 2:34PM (3/21/2007)
This is ridiculous. The regulations were changed specifically to accommodate Audi's TDi. The current regulations are very advantageous for anyone racing a diesel, and what a strike of luck, only Audi had one ready. R10 is not much more powerful than R8 or the gasoline powered competition, but it has 50% more torque. This is an immense and completely unfair advantage that was warranted to Audi. Audi should be the last team to complain about the regulation.
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Lee Gibson 2:48PM (3/21/2007)
"This is an immense and completely unfair advantage"
Unfair? Why? Is Audi somehow preventing other people from doing the same things they do?
No?
Well then.
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Yago Bal 5:35PM (3/21/2007)
12# Bingo! ;)
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Dan 3:38PM (3/21/2007)
#12 No other team could afford to develop TDi, in the time available. Only manufacturer teams can do such a thing, but there aren't any other in this series. The regulations were made so that diesel will have about the same power with gasoline engines, ignoring the fact that Diesels run at higher compression ratio, hence the much higher torque figures.
Audi forced these regulations only to promote their line of turbo diesels, it has nothing to do with racing. With honest regulations, diesels can never compete with gasoline engines. Besides, the use of diesels in passenger cars is a nonsense all together. The problem with gasoline engines is pollution, not fuel consumption, but (car) diesels pollute even more. The spread of passenger car diesels in Europe, strongly promoted by local manufacturers to increase sales, brought only higher prices for diesel fuel and general transportation and more pollution. Diesels have their place, but not in cars.
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Ian 4:11PM (3/21/2007)
The ACO has been screwing around with the the Regs so much that's the problem IMHO.
They decided that LMP1 is going to be virtually a diesel only category and write Rules so that in the time frame only HUGE manufacturers can produce a car. Total advantage for Audi. Only Peugeot is following and m,ay or may not have a new car finished in times for te LM 24 hrs. All this o say the ACO sportscars are eemission friendly! How says that diesels are the future for road cars anyway?
I have heard that Champion Audi will run last years R10 in the ALMS series in 2007. Me I hope that all the diesels go away and we can get back to normal racing. Privateers have no access to the advantaged diesel technology, that's why LMP2 is now so crowded with cars. The ACO hit at the LMP2s to stop them embrarassing the LMP1s in 2007, but ALMS refuesed this mod so the LMP2 cars in ALMS may be closeer than they are in Europe.
Another ALMS category about to FAIL and this is much more serious IMHO, is the GT1 category. Corvette have basically no competition here and say they will not run in 2008 unless a viable competitor team comes along.
Oh yeah one more thing. In disadvantaging non diesels the ACO and ALMS also disadvantage the Mazda rotary engine. Thus Mazda gave up the ortary motor (can't get enough HP under the Regs) and stashed in an AER engine. Now this Mazda also is off the pace in LMP1 and we lost the unique sound of the rotary.
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Josh 6:29PM (3/21/2007)
Let's not forget that the ALMS did not do anything to "slow down" the Audis last year other than reduce the size of the restrictor in the fuel rig to make refueling comparable. What they did do was reduce the weight that the non-diesels ran and gave them restrictor breaks (although I could be wrong on the second one) to make the other cars more competitive. I think we all agree that Audi has done a fantastic job of building a car to comply with the rules regarding diesel powered racers. The fact is that no other manufacturer has stepped up (other than Peugeot) and built a car to compete, diesel or otherwise. If you look at the LMP1 field at Le Mans over the past few years, it is Audi (Joest/Champion etc) versus privateer teams running various engine-chassis combinations.
Dr. Ulrich's and Audi's complaints refer to the R10 now having to compete with LMP2 cars which they never should have had to. If the ALMS had as many privateer teams running in LMP1 as the LMS does, I do not believe we would be having this discussion. The ALMS did not adopt the 5% reduction in LMP2 restrictors because then it would be an Audi freight train in LMP1 and no competition at the front. Now, with the LMP2s running last year's restrictors, there may be. Will Audi win the LMP1 title this way? Yes. But they may have to do it with a few less overall wins.
I believe that if Audi pulls out of the ALMS, we will see a few more teams racing in LMP1 since they would now believe they could win. This is just like if Corvette pulled out of GT1. We would see more cars and more racing for wins. I do not want to see Audi pull out because I am an Audi enthusiast to the core, but in the end, we may see bigger car counts and more teams going for the win, and then the ALMS may adopt those LMP2 rules that the ACO implemented. It seems to work in the LMS.
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why not the LS2/LS7? 4:42PM (3/21/2007)
I am (predictably) with everything Ian said.
P1 could be fixed by neutering the Diesels unless the manufacturers agree to sell Diesels to privateers. This needs to be done so that LMP1 doesn't end up like GT1. The privateers are needed for car count and to keep the werks teams pushing the envelope. If you can't make it possible for privateers to compete cost-effectively, your series will be in a lot of trouble.
In an ideal world, Judd would develop an ACO-spec Diesel and sell it to Pescarolo and Creation. But there's just no money for them to develop an engine they will only sell 10 of.
I wish I saw a way to save GT1. When Pratt & Miller and Prodrive show up and compete, the results are amazing. We've seen this over the last 6 years. But the way it is now, GM will (wisely) just pack up and move over to Grand Am where Pratt & Miller campaign the G6.GXP.R (soon to be G8) and SCCA where Pratt & Miller campaign the CTS-Vs. There will still be good racing out there in this class, it just won't be in ALMS.
If it weren't for P2, I'd say the time of the prototype is over. With supercars as fast as they are now, it's time for the winner of Le Mans to be a car you can actually see on the road again, like it was when the Ford GT40 and the McLaren F1 ran.
I am bummed Mazda dumped the rotary. I can't say I'm a rotary fan, but having each team bring something different to the table is great. Having them all have to buy a spec motor is not as great.
Speaking of sounds, I still miss the Panoz LMP-1 roadster. That blat blat blat was amazing, and seeing the engine up front and the driver way back there just in front of the rear wing was so quirky.
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Chet 6:59PM (3/21/2007)
Rule changes happen all the time -- whenever the balance is lost. It's fantastic that diesel technology got a boost -- Audi exploited the rules for dominance, and they (and diesel power) have reaped benefits. It's time the rules caught up to keep competition interesting. Too much dominance can kill competition, and that's what's happening here.
If Audi wants to move on, great. If they want to stick it out and continue improving in a competitive environment, great.
Nobody watches racing when you know who's gonna win. LMP1 and GT1 are BORING brand-polishing exercises now. Racing would be more interesting if both Audi and Corvette found new formulas.
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Mike M 5:05PM (3/21/2007)
What would have happened if Audi's TDI experiment would have fallen flat on it's face? I'm sure when word got out that Audi would enter a Diesel, many people at ALMS were laughing. Would there have been rule changes restricting the gassers to make the competition more competative?? Don't think so! So why then should Audi be punished for their success?
Audi are the ones laughing now! They should pull out and move to F1. Screw ALMS!
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Josh 7:21PM (3/21/2007)
Audi should not go to F1! What possible application to road cars does that have? Besides, they can spend about a fourth of what they would on an winning F1 project and win in cars that use technology that can be applied to their road cars.
And Audi did not force the ACO to write allowances for diesels in the rules. If you remember, Audi wasn't even the first to run a diesel as someone else mentioned. The ACO is trying to broaden the appeal by allowing alternative fuels, not just gasoline.
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