• Feb 27, 2007
During a recent press drive of the Euro-market Civic Type R, Winding Road's European editor Matt Davis appears to have gotten unofficial confirmation that Honda will be offering a Type R variant of the U.S. model Civic in 2010. Speaking with an unnamed assistant chief engineer, Davis learned that the car we'll get is likely based on the Japanese Domestic Market Civic Type R, which is a four-door sedan rather than the Euro market's three-door hatchback. Since Honda already sells the four-door Civic in the States and not the Euro hatchback, this only makes sense. Davis' source also revealed the car would receive a horsepower boost and limited-slip differential. We imagine any car wearing the Type R badge would also lose some weight, as well.

While we do appreciate Honda offering the Civic Si here in the U.S., especially the four-door version, it's high-revving 2.0L enginer producing 197 hp is easily outmatched by many of its competitors that have crested the 200 hp mark and then some. The closest thing Honda has right now to what we'll eventually get in the U.S. is this prototype four-door Type R Civic (shown above) based on the JDM model. It was used as the official pace car for the 2006 F1 Japan Grand Prix and is the prototype for the four-door Civic Type R that will be on sale in Japan this year.

[Source: Winding Road]


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  • 65 Comments
      • 7 Years Ago
      Darrell,

      Thanks for your notes in response to my post #53. You reworded what I was trying to convey. I completely agree that there is a difference between a Honda built Type R and the Mugen Si. That is why I wrote Type R in quotes before.

      The Mugen is a Type R in spirit if not in reality. It focuses on balanced performance, and track readiness.

      Great reading about all the quality control stuff too. I had forgotten about that aspect of Type R.
      • 7 Years Ago
      Warren: Thanks. Although you are correct that the Mugen Si will be the closest Honda offering to a Type R upon release. At only 500 vehicles planned for production each year, they'll be very rare. I wonder how much more of a performance balance it will offer vs. the sedan Si's. I also wonder when we'll start to see Type R imitations in the States.

      ToddMN: The Mazdaspeed3 and the Si are more comparable in terms of extreme/spirited driving. But in daily 'round the town driving, I would have to agree that it would be laughable to compare the two and try to that claim the Si can keep up. But I think many of us have gotten off the topic, since this post is in regards to the potential offering of the Type R in the U.S.
      • 7 Years Ago
      Horsepower is not everything.

      The pleasure of driving such a tweaked machine, with such a pefected NA powerplant and its addictive 'voice' are some of the essence of JDM Type-Rs.

      I'm emphasizing on JDM model, cuz, to me, the only REAL Type-R comes from Japan, and, esp. NOT from Acura if they have any?

      I'm rather dissapointed with the Euro variant. The quality is a big turn off, esp. the brake calipers.

      Too bad, in the States, you are getting all the bad clones.

      Take a look at Mitsubishi Evolution MR, and WRX STi offered in the States. They aren't even considered the 'pure' models. To me, they don't even deserved the MR and STi badge. Worse, the WRX STi aren't even powered by the EJ20!

      • 7 Years Ago
      10. Why is everyone getting worked up about a 200 hp Civic??? Why is it that imports ALWAYS have significantly less torque than they do hp? But it's ok, brag about the Honda because it's a Honda instead of looking at the specs.
      Posted at 6:16PM on Feb 27th 2007 by Jeremy

      Ever heard of a Mazdaspeed 3? 263 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque. The hot hatch market is cornered by the Europeans, and we don't get any of those in the US except the Golf R32, which isn't shy of torque either.
      • 7 Years Ago
      Hmmmm
      There are a dozen other auto companies that make their best cars in Europe, Brazil, Japan, Austrailia (GM, Ford, Chrysler / DCX / M-B, VW, BMW), and thats not even mentioning the better European companies.. that would woop the domestics if their cars came here.

      As far as the front clip from the Civic is compared to the Ion.. Dont. They dont look anything alike. I can name a dozen cars.. with that same bubble in the front lights.. the TL is just one of them.

      My only hope.. is that they bring over the Accord Type R in Sedan and Estate form. Not to mention the better version of the Ody and stream.. the next gen Fit / Jazz.. and fix the front clip of the Ridgeline
      • 7 Years Ago
      I am a proud owner of a Si Sedan.

      To Jeremy: the big deal is that it's naturally aspirated. The other engines you name use forced induction. If I wanted to, I could add forced induction to my Si and make more power than an SRT-4. Comptech makes a supercharger that puts down ~260hp to the wheels. All Japanese Performance makes a turbo kit for the car that puts down ~370hp to the wheels.

      And to the MS3 guys: nice car, but I'll take my 200lbs less weight (and at least $1k less money) to your 60 extra hp (on paper, that is, in the real world, Civic Si's are putting down 180hp to the wheels vs the MS3's 216, only a 36 hp difference). I can make up for the difference in horsepower. Can you make up for the difference in weight? :-D
      • 7 Years Ago
      Jim,

      I hate to tell you, but off-boost down low, the MS3 makes negligibly more torque with much wider gear ratios, making your point moot. It doesn't matter how you make the power or when you enter the power band, it's that you make the power. The MS3 makes all its power from 3k-5.5k, then drops off to redline. The Civic makes power from 6k to 8.5k, with no drop off up until fuel cutoff. The MS3 has a peaky torque curve. The Civic has a flat torque curve. The MS3 uses forced induction, the Si is naturally aspirated. The two couldn't be more different for similar-sized engines. Why so defensive?

      Saying the Si is a contender against the MS3 is no joke at all. They're nearly identical in size, within $2k of each other in price, are both based on their respective company's compact offering, and target the same audience. The Mazda makes more power and weighs more, the Honda makes slightly less and weighs slightly less. And they make power in completely different ways. But, pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, they're much closer than your ego is letting you think.
      • 7 Years Ago
      Sean:

      Your 180hp doesn't say much in the ways of torque. Sure, if you want drive around revving the shit out of the iVTEC motor just to feel "sporty", be my guest. I'd rather get planted to my seat from the 2.3 DISI and THEN get the benefits of F/I in the upper RPM ranges. Even arguing remotely that the Civic Si is a contender against the MS3 is a joke.
      • 7 Years Ago
      Ok. I can't help commenting on this post.

      "25. First off, Mazdaspeed 3 starts $4000 higher. With bolt-ons you get an additional 20hp easy on an Si. Second, Si's don't have engine mounts failing and engines falling onto the axle. As for the amazing performance difference (you know, because if you get pulled back on the seat it's faster):"

      Per Mazdausa.com - MS3 starts at $22835 (incl dest)
      Per hondacars.com - Civic Si Coupe starts at $21685 (incl dest), Civic Si Sedan starts at $21885 (incl dest)
      Now maybe my math is a little rusty, but that doesn't equal a $4000 difference.
      Even with the Grand Touring trim on the MS3 you're talking a starting price of $24550 (incl dest). Still not $4000.

      Haven't heard of any Mazda motors falling out, and I've owned (and loved) two of them.

      "0-60
      Civic Si: 6.3
      Mazdaspeed 3: 6.0"

      First, I have never read any test that reported a 0-60 on the Si better than 6.6 sec. Some have been as high as 7.1 sec. In the real world with predominantly much less skilled drivers 7.1-7.5 sec is probably much more realistic at best - maybe even as much as 8.0. The VTEC is hard to get used to driving at its fastest due to bogging down and taking so long to get "into the cam".
      Second, the worst run I have read for an MS3 is 6.1 sec with some as good as 5.8 sec. Again, real worl drivers will not be this good, but the car is better at making up for lack of talent due to tons of torque. Good real worl numbers might be around 6.5 with some as high as 7.0. Much bigger difference than what you talked about.

      "You get more horsepower by paying more money... why is that shocking? I suppose Honda should've made the Si with DSG, carbon ceramic brakes, and a 260HP engine at that price? John Neff is clueless."

      You do usually get more power for more money. That's why the racer's saying is "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to spend?" As for Honda building a faster or more powerful Civic? Well they announced the Mugen Civic Si for this year. It will have about 8-10 more horsepower with a focus on suspension and handling improvements, a body kit and wing, a unique color, and a price tag much closer to $30k (probably in the $28k-$29k range). even a factory Type R would likely start at a minimum of $25k or more. The only Honda anywhere near 260hp right now is the s2000. That starts well over $30k.

      Maybe John Neff is not the one who's clueless after all.

      Don't get me wrong. I love the Si in both forms. Just know what you're talking about before you start calling someone else clueless.
      • 7 Years Ago
      It has always bothered me that people compare the Mazdaspeed3 and the Si. I suppose we can blame Edmunds for including them both in their Sport Compact Comparo. It doesn't really seem to be a fair comparison. The performance specs of the Si are far more comparable to the US market Mazda 3s. While the Normally aspirated 3 is slightly slower to 60, 7.5 sec vs. 7.2 sec for the Si, they are both normal production models (not limited production such as the MS3). I suppose the price of the Si is closer to the base price of the MS3, but as many people have noted, most the available speed3's are priced over $25k, so at least functionally the Si and the 3S are closer in price.
      • 7 Years Ago


      "...which sticks your neck to the seat..."

      Me? I'd want the acceleration of a car to stick my butt to the seat. Must be kind of hard driving your way.

      With several years to produce a working prototype, I don't understand why Honda can't do like what it does in Europe...take a two door (in this case NOT a hatchback) strip it down a bit, inject it with a dew more horses, paint it a special color and charge a bit extra for the "privilege to buy it.

      I am curious to know how popular the 4 door Si is compared to the 2 door and if the numbers are being manipulated. That is, are dealers "flooded" with 4 doors while 2 doors are scarce...or vice versa?
      • 7 Years Ago
      "honda does not make a 3 door type r unless you are counting the jdm rsx type r but they dont sell a 2 and 3 door type r in the same market. im not sure what that has to do with anything anyways."

      * The original 96 spec Civic Type-R was a 3 door
      * The Integra Type-R's were all 3 doors
      * All of the DC5 Integra Type-R's (RSX in the US) were 3 doors, as you mentioned

      Um... pretty much every Type-R up until now has been a 3 door sans the very rare NSX-R. Go study some facts.
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