Filed under: Government/Legal, GM, Pontiac
NHTSA investigating Pontiac Grand Prix engine fires
Drivers of 1999-2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GTPs might not want to park their GPs inside their garages after word that NHTSA is investigating those models for engine fires. Grand Prix GTPs are equipped with superchargers, which generate heat as well as HP. Could that be the main culprit? Perhaps, but there are plenty of other added components that differentiate the blown six from the normally aspirated one, too. We'll just have to see how the investigation pans out.
There have been 21 complaints and 16 engine fires since the models were introduced. The fires seem to start about 15 minutes after the car has been parked and turned off. Up to 72,000 vehicles could be affected. If your car becomes another statistic in this GTP flambé mystery, look on the bright side: you get to go car shopping really soon.
[Source: Detroit News]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Avinash machado 7:27AM (2/05/2007)
Well I guess we will soon see a lot of GM bashing comments here.
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Nate 4:48PM (1/01/2009)
My 97 Grand Prix GT (not supercharged) just burned up a couple days ago. Shut it off went inside and within 5 min smoke alarms in my kitchen went off. Fire Dept. says it started in the engine compartment after I shut it off. It was running just fine prior to this and I havn't had any major problems with the car and ive had it for 7 years and it has 175k miles on it! It just started on fire by itself! Even worse is my garage caught fire as a result and destroyed most of the contents. Also I only had liability on it so im out a car.
The recall should include ALL 3800 series engines not just the supercharged ones.
Za 7:47AM (2/05/2007)
I had a friend call in to work saying he couldn't make it. He does this quite often. He told us he didn't have a car. We told him we would send someone out to give him a ride. He said he REALLY didn't have a car - it was on fire. We called 'bullshit' and asked for pictures. He sent us a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjZPIRN2_kY
He wasn't kidding.
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CF 7:56AM (2/05/2007)
This seems strange considering that the GTP supercharged V6 was not a new engine for these model years. The '98 Riviera had this engine, too. So why are only certain models affected? Anyone have any ideas?
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Dave 8:11AM (2/05/2007)
My buddy's '97 GP 3.8 also burst into flames. It had 170k on it though - so I assumed it was poor maintenance.
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Patrick 8:34AM (2/05/2007)
You would think it was the 97-2002 models that are effected, not many changes happend between those years. Funny my old 98 had signs of a minor engine fire before I bought it new. But it looked like an electrical fire due to faulty wiring from a remote start installed.
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Tyo 9:32AM (2/05/2007)
The L67 (blown 3.8) came out as a 96 modelin the Buick Riv' but there was also a first gen in 1995. as far as i know from 96 untill the 3rd generation the motor didnt change, thats plent of affected buick regals, riv's, and gtp's
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jscro 9:43AM (2/05/2007)
Awww, it's commiting suicide.
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Dm 10:27AM (2/05/2007)
I have a 98 GTP. Recently had to have the engine swapped due to a bad intake manifold gasket job.
All went well but would periodically smell gas. I finally tracked it down. The fuel rail was leaking slightly on the super charger. They were able to fix without running new line to tank. Has not leaked since. Not sure the point of running gas lines over something that gets really hot. Perhaps heating up the gas makes it more efficient?
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BGJ 1:47PM (2/05/2007)
Let's see here, 21 complaints out of how many 10's of thousands of vehicles? Anyone know how many coupe gtp's were sold over that 4-yr span?
We are probably talking around .01% of vehicles sold showing this issue.
And since I used to own one, I know how frequently this vehicle is modded with smaller supercharger pulleys, supercharger boost modifications, fuel modifications, etc. These can all lead to higher operating temps and fatigue failure of engine components. How many of these 21 complaints were stock, NON-modified GTP's???
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Jeff Gilleran 5:52PM (2/05/2007)
To answer and comment:
No, hot fuel isnt as efficient.
You want cool fuel to lower intake temperatures, and a cool fuel will tend to lower incoming air and actually improve power slightly.
Remember the percentage of fuel to air stoichometric of 14.7 air to 1 part fuel is the goal for best fuel effiency and lowest emmissions.
Lowering fuel temp will improve performance but again.. just a bit.
Incoming Air temp is more important overall.
Now about issues..
Sure, there are lots of Grand Prix's out there, but not all of them had the 3.8 V6 Supercharged engine.
Most had the 3.1 V6 for several years.
Im pretty sure not that many people bought the GTP with the 3.8 Supercharged engine.. so 10s of thousands isnt a realistic figure honestly.
Electrical has been a real issue with GM for the last 25 years, but this was a gas fire.
GM is well known for buying low quality designed parts from various suppliers.
The goal with several automakers (not only GM) is to hit 60K miles as close to trouble free as possible or 5 years and let the next guy deal with whatever comes along.
Doesnt always work out that way however.
Maintenance is a big deal when ANY vehicle become older because time and heat tend to wear out rubber components (fuel lines) as well as vibration tends to weaken plastics and also chafe wiring.
Sometimes, a wiring harness just gives out due to proximity to heat resulting in underhood/dash fires.
But more often than not its just poor part quality/ fit/finish in the first place causing a variety of issues that could have been prevented with a slight modification.
I agree about placing a fuel line so close to areas where it could have a leak and spray on a hot engine or exhaust resulting in a fire is a sad deal.
The best solution is to minimize connection points (bends)and keep main fuel rail as simple as possible with a shield or 2 if necessary.
With some designs ive noticed that there just isnt alot of room.
The 3.8 V6 got a new fuel distribution rail to allow for a Supercharger, and the components are more of an "afterthought" and tacked on to fit the design parameters of an earlier engine.
Sometimes, bad things happen.
I know the pre-1985 Carbureted Ford pickups with larger V8s had bad tendancies to catch fire all because the fuel pump metal line to the fuel filter on the carb fitting wasnt "tight enough" for anyone doing the maintenence causing lots of potential fires, or actual carburetor replacements due to "overtightening" and cracking or stripping the threads on the carb.
Stupid designs just happen.
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Andrew Williamson 11:49PM (2/05/2007)
Most of the fires are believed to be caused by aged/worn fuel injector o-rings. It's mildly amusing because these said o-rings take less than $10 and half an hour to swap out but they can cause amazing amounts of damage if neglected. Poor maintenance habits.
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doug 3:45PM (2/07/2007)
Seems like a great way to get rid of that Grand Prix you accidentally bought. Just in time to buy a G8!
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kyle 11:10PM (2/07/2007)
If I recall correctly, I think most of these fires were caused by faulty o-rings on the injectors.
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G Godwin 1:49PM (2/10/2007)
I just had this happen to me. Just parked it in a parking lot, 10-15 minutes later the Fire Fighters were prying the hood open to put the blaze out, was a total loss. 2000 Grand Prix GTP, stock, 48K miles, was paid for. Glad it was not in my garage! Some of you that have one and are in denial better get wise and not park it in the garage or make sure your fire insurance is up to date.
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nick corneal 8:07PM (3/03/2007)
Engine fires on the Grand Prix GTP. I had one and I put it out I have pictures of the spark plug cables which I believe are the cause of the fires. I have pictures showing that the cable that was along the manifold and under the motor cover caught fire after being exposed to the heat of the engine for a long time. I have pictures of these and would like to post them.
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Tom Prucha 12:02AM (3/05/2007)
I'd like to know more about how a spark plug wire can catch fire. I've had plug wires lay directly on exhaust manifolds and not catch fire. Did it somehow catch the engine cover on fire?
For the record, this engine is specifically designed for a supercharger. The block, heads and intake manifold are L67 (supercharged 3800) only. The injectors are in the cylinder head, which is a feature exclusive to this version of the engine. the fuel rail is specifically designed for this arrangement.
There are very likely many 10s of 1000s of these engines on the road (at least 70K), so this is a big deal. Although 20 or 30 fires is a statistically small percentage, that is still too many for me not to worry about it. I really like this car and would hate to see it go up in smoke. I will dedicate myself to root-causing and fixing this on my car and to disseminate what I learn.
I had a problem that I ignored a few summers ago when attaching a fuel pressure gage to the fuel rail. I noticed that the quick release fuel line fittings could leak when contorted. I will be looking into this further. The leak subsided when the fuel pressure gage was installed without bias, and also when it was removed. I never thought twice about this until this investigation.
It seems that most people believe it is the fuel injector o-ring seals, which is hard for me to imagine considering so many other engines use the same type of o-rings. Maybe it is something to do with them being in the heads. But then again the same arrangement is on the 2003 and 2004, and they seem to be exempt.
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Todd Dawson 10:49AM (3/05/2007)
Add mine to the list. My 1999 GTP was stock and had 60k miles. Maintained per the owners manual. Burned to the ground after being parked for only a few minutes. Two separate investigations said the fire started around the drivers headlamp area under the air filter assembly. Pontiac / GM / Insurance all still did nothing....
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Tom Prucha 8:06PM (3/05/2007)
Paul, I am very sorry to hear of your misfortune. Is yours one of the 21 mentioned in the NHTSA ODI Action #PE07006 (http://tinyurl.com/3cljhx)? If not you should make sure you report it. In fact, now that an investigation has begun it seems your insurance should reconsider your claim.
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Tom Prucha 8:15PM (3/05/2007)
Paul, just a few more questions... do you recall if your car was cold, slightly warm, warm, or hot when you parked it? By chance, were you on the throttle hard just before it was parked (something you should be able to do without concern)? What was the ambient temperature? Did you use a lot of E10 fuel? I am just looking for precautions for those still driving these cars. Certainly, it sounds like cheap insurance to change the injector o-ring seals, perhaps with a better-than-OEM-quality part (or maybe a flex-fuel capable OEM part).
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