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Chrysler considering diesel minivan for US market
Click on the image for a gallery of high-res shots of the 2008 Chrysler minivans
Thanks to changes in Chrysler's manufacturing plans for European market minivans and the popularity of Jeep diesels, the US market may eventually get diesel minivans. For the past decade, the Euro market vans were assembled at a plant in Austria, but the new van production will be consolidated at Chrysler's St. Louis, MO assembly plant. That means that the VM Motori diesel engines that are offered in European vans will be shipped to the US for installation. The current diesel doesn't meet new emissions standards, but Mercedes is developing a new 2.2L two-stage turbo diesel for 2010. This engine should meet all the new emissions standards and since they will be coming to the US anyway, it would make sense to sell some of them in the domestic market. Minivans aren't as mini as they were when the original Dodge Caravan appeared in 1984, and their mileage is less than stellar. A high torque, fuel efficient diesel paired up with a six speed automatic would likely be a very good match for the vans and should prove popular.
[Source: Automotive News - sub. req'd]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
marilyn 7:06AM (9/23/2009)
Back in 1984, I bought a mazda B2200 pickup truck which had a 2.2 litre non-turbo diesel engine coupled with a 5 speed manual transmission. This was the last year before they stopped putting diesel engines into mazda pickups.
Although it was one of the slowest engines acceleration wise on the road, I still could bring it up easily to 100 kph (62,5 mph) over a distance of 700 meters (I actually measured this exactly). It had a top speed of 132 kph ( 83 mph) and did an astounding mileage per gallon. The tank contained 66 liters (17.46 US gallons) and I commuted regularly from chicago to my home in Ottawa which represents about 1275 km (796 miles) without ever having to fill up along the way. As a matter of fact, I never had to fill more than 60 litres (15.87 us gallons) of diesel for that trip even against the wind. All this equates to a consumption of approximately 796 miles / 15.87 us gal = 50.1 miles per US gallon. In winter city driving, mileage dropped down to about 35 mpg.
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Gardiner Westbound 1:29PM (2/05/2007)
Chrysler hasn't figured out how to make a reliable 4-speed automatic transmission. A 6-speed will be an impossibility.
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fd 1:42PM (2/05/2007)
Still 3-4 years from now and only a 2.2l?
How about a 3.0 V6? I really would expect something with more volume & cylinders for a vehicle as big & heavy as the Caravan/T&C in the US market.
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Sam 1:46PM (2/05/2007)
2.2 is more than enough. at MAX maybe 2.5
the 2.2 should make about 300 torque. Any more and you are chirpping the tires. The 4.0 V6 makes 275 torque.
2.2 and 6 speed and you are rocking!
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fordman 1:50PM (2/05/2007)
Considering that until just 4 years ago you could get a Caravan with a 2.4 liter 4 cyl making 150hp a 2.2 diesel is more than adequate.
Please people, dont get so hung up on the size of the engine. Its technology we are talking about here.
Im sure this engine would be great. The sprinter 2.7 is extremely strong and the van weighs 5200 lbs in the biggest config and has a payload capacity of 3400 lbs and a towing capacity of 5000 lbs.
Technology is a great thing. So lets wait and see what happens.
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dakota 1:57PM (2/05/2007)
"Chrysler hasn't figured out how to make a reliable 4-speed automatic transmission. A 6-speed will be an impossibility"
What time you living in still 1990?
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Keith M 6:41PM (2/05/2007)
It seems to me this is just the wrong vehicle to put a diesel into, unless they are thinking of the commercial users - becuase the demographic of the mini van user is likely the last to adopt diesels. Soccer mom has no interest driving miles out of her way to find a diesel fuel pump, when there are 10 stations closer that sell gas. Did DCX ever notice the diesel pumps in the US - it always farthest from the door of the station, uncovered from the weather (to accomidate tall trucks), dirtiest and usually reeks of spilt diesel.
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ryan 2:13PM (2/05/2007)
"5. "Chrysler hasn't figured out how to make a reliable 4-speed automatic transmission. A 6-speed will be an impossibility"
What time you living in still 1990?"
-No, but that front end on this thing is!
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Kowell 2:21PM (2/05/2007)
Isn't VW gonna commercialise a diesel version of this van already?
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chuck goolsbee 2:52PM (2/05/2007)
#2, forget everything you have learned about displacement and number of cylinders when you switch to Diesel. If a 90HP 1.9 liter 4-cyl can propel my 3000lb VW Jetta to 120 MPH with ease (and get over 45 MPG doing it!), then why would you need more than 2.2L for a minivan?
Diesel's are torquey as hell, and for low-speed (0-70 MPH driving) they are excellent powerplants, even at small sizes. If anything, they lose fuel efficiency for little gain when you make them bigger. They help you tow more weight, but for a passenger car, that is mostly irrelevent.
--chuck
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Sam 10:29PM (2/05/2007)
The outgoing vans had the 2.8 liter VM Motori CRD engine that the 2005-2006 Jeep Liberty CRD has. 160 hp, 295 lb/ft of torque.
My parents are lucky enough to have an '06 Liberty CRD, and this motor propels a 4200 pound Jeep VERY well. 0-60 is equal to the 3.7 V6 and the torque feels MUCH faster.
This motor was available with a 6-speed manual in Europe in the vans as well. I'll guess that motor and trans make the van a rocket.
Remember people, it is torque that moves cars.
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Sam 10:31PM (2/05/2007)
#10:
That is hardly the case in WA State where I live. You have plenty of suburban women driving around in F-250 diesels or Excursion diesels, and plenty of nice Shell stations that sell ULSD (which doesn't stink like old school high sulfur diesel did).
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TalD 6:29AM (2/06/2007)
Great news for Chysler mini Vans. Our current 2005 Chrysler T&C averages 23.5mpg approx 2/3 on hwy miles. A more fuel efficient diesel would be a welcomed addition.
Some of the info above makes me feel more confident that a smaller diesel engine will power a vehicle as well or better than a larger gasoline engine.
Audi has been racing with diesel powered engines and doing quite well lately. It must be for a very good reason.
Mazda introduced a new concept vehicle that will be diesel powered.
Until I know any better, I think diesel or diesel/battery combo will help reduce the amt of oil consumption.
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LiteWerk 12:20AM (2/06/2007)
Seems like anybody reading this should know that Chrysler currently offers a 6-speed automatic on certain models, such as the new Sebring sedan. Also, in regards to finding diesel fuel pumps, all the gas stations I visit offer diesel to accomodate the Cummins, PowerStroke, and DuraMax powered pick-ups, as well as all the turbo diesel powered VeeDub cars. I think offering diesel engines in the minivans sounds like a good idea. Because of great low-end torque and good fuel economy, people should be more receptive to diesels. It would be my first choice for a powerplant in a minivan.
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UH2L 12:18AM (2/06/2007)
Speaking of power and torque, I just did a write-up on power, torque and weight at...
http://uh2l.blogs.com/realitydriven/2007/02/the_myths_of_po.html
With respect to diesels, they provide lots of torque at low rpms and usually don't rev as high so their peak horsepower rating is typically low.
Atul
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M. 2:48AM (2/06/2007)
The 2.8l I4 won't be an option. It simply does not reach future emission standards. It will sure live on as an engine for small commercial vehicles.
I even doubt the VM 2.0l (110kW) will make it. The VM V6 3.0l seems more reasonable. It is a compact package, suitable for 190hp+ and will allow for longer gear ratios than the 2.0l thus resulting in good economy.
Regarding the DC Diesels in the Sprinter: The first 213 had the 2.7l I5 with 130hp. The current generation 215 uses the 2.2l I4 with 150hp. I just had one for a couple of days. 105mph was no problem (loaded), although acceleration could be better.
But I doubt DC considering Mercedes engines for the Chrysler van: the I4 fits, but is not ideal and the I5 and V6 are simply too large.
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W 2:02PM (2/06/2007)
yeah yeah - That's all good and everything but at the end of the day, it's still a minivan...
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66coronet 3:14PM (2/09/2007)
http://www.diesel.org/enews/ads.html
Chrysler Eyes Diesel Minivans for U.S.
Automotive News
DETROIT -- The Chrysler group is strongly considering selling diesel-powered minivans in North America as early as 2010.
"We're contemplating it," said Jason Vines, Chrysler's chief spokesman.
Talk of a diesel minivan is another indication that Chrysler is looking at a broad lineup of diesel-powered cars and light trucks in a few years. A Mercedes-Benz diesel engine under development will make it possible to meet U.S. emissions requirements.
The case for fuel-efficient diesels is growing because engineers are designing technology to make them cleaner and more powerful. Also, low-sulfur diesel fuel arrived at U.S. pumps last year. The fuel enables diesels to meet stringent new emissions standards.
But diesel engines are more costly to produce than comparable gasoline engines. Diesels have complex equipment to clean emissions and inject fuel at high pressures.
Vines said Chrysler CEO Tom LaSorda will announce sometime this year which vehicles will get diesel engines. Now, the company has confirmed only one new diesel-powered vehicle, the Jeep Grand Cherokee, which goes on sale in March in 45 states. Five states including California have rigorous emissions requirements that the engine can't match.
Heavier Weight Class
The Grand Cherokee will feature a Mercedes 3.0-liter V-6 diesel. Chrysler also sells Dodge Ram diesel pickups, but they are in a heavier weight class with less stringent emissions requirements.
A new diesel engine under development also improves the case for more diesel-powered vehicles for Chrysler.
In 2010, Chrysler will start using a 2.2-liter, four-cylinder Mercedes diesel engine.
The engine will be assembled at the DaimlerChrysler plant in Unterturkheim, Germany, says Andrew Fulbrook, an analyst for consultant CSM Worldwide in London.
The engine, code-named OM651, uses a dual-stage turbocharger to extract high power and torque from a relatively small displacement. With variable output, dual-stage turbochargers help engines deliver better performance over a wider range of revolutions per minute.
A typical four-cylinder, dual-stage turbodiesel can produce as much torque as a V-8 gasoline engine.
"You're getting into the realms of high-performance diesel," says Fulbrook.
The dual-stage turbo, developed by BorgWarner Inc., is sold only on two six-cylinder models in Europe, the BMW 535D and 335D. Fulbrook says the new Mercedes engine will be equipped with the Mercedes Bluetec system. That will enable it to run as cleanly as a gasoline engine and meet U.S. emissions requirements that will take effect in 2010.
Minivans Moving to U.S.
Also improving the case for diesels in Chrysler minivans is the company's plan to drop diesel-minivan production in Austria this year and move it to the United States.
At a plant in Graz, Austria, Magna Steyr produced for Chrysler 26,867 Voyagers and Grand Voyagers last year. The decision to consolidate production in two North American factories means the Grand Voyager, including diesel and right-hand-drive versions for the United Kingdom, likely will be made at Chrysler's St. Louis South plant.
Chrysler recently invested $1 billion in the plant so it could assemble more models simultaneously. Buzz Hargrove, president of the Canadian Auto Workers union, says he has good reason to believe the European minivans will be made in St. Louis -- not in Windsor, Ontario, where Chrysler also makes minivans.
For the next couple of years, all diesel Grand Voyagers for Europe will be powered by the same 2.8-liter, four-cylinder diesel engine -- code-named 428MAJOR -- in the current model, says Fulbrook. Chrysler buys that engine from VM Motori S.p.A. in Cento, Italy.
When the 2.2-liter Mercedes is available in 2010, it eventually will replace all the VM Motori engines. CSM's forecast calls for several thousand diesel minivans powered by the new engine to be reserved for U.S. production.
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Dutch72 7:35PM (2/13/2007)
Why can't they use the diesel that they are using in the new cherokee, unless its physically too large..
you could have good gasmilage, move the family as well as the fishing boat.
Dutch72
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Land 10:15PM (3/19/2007)
Definitely too long in coming. Small Diesels should be available for all smaller vehicles. 24 mpg is simply unacceptable and small diesels work and would save everyone a lot of $ and sparkplugs.
Make this happen in 2007.
Bring back AWD and make a manual transmission available. The Caravan Auto Tranny doesn't work well.
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