Ford is not #4, still part of Big 3
After all the sales numbers for the month of January were released, reports began popping up that Ford had fallen to fourth place in sales in the U.S. last month behind General Motors, Toyota and the Chrysler Group. This is nothing more than selective journalism, with journos picking out the numbers that serve a sensational headline like "Ford's #4!". Basically, the battle for third place in sales in the U.S. is between Ford and DCX, and the victor depends on which brands you count in both company's sales numbers. In the past, Ford had always been counted as sales from Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and the Premier Automotive Group that includes Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. If all those brands are counted, which they usually are, Ford sold 166,835 vehicles. Normally DaimlerChrysler sales are split in two between the Chrysler Group and Mercedes-Benz. The Chrysler Group sold 156,308 units in January, while Mercedes-Benz sold 17,069 last month. Together, DaimlerChrysler as a whole sold 173,377. True, in the battle of Ford vs. DaimlerChrysler, DCX wins. Even in the battle of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vs. Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep, the Chrysler Group again wins by a narrow margin of 156,308 to 153,026. However, if the numbers are calculated in the way that have been since we've been paying attention, Ford (including PAG) sold 166,835 units to the Chrysler Group's 156,308 units. The problem is that, to our knowledge, the standard practice has been to count Ford's domestic brands with all of PAG and to count the Chrysler Group separately from Mercedes-Benz. We've pretty much been following the lead of each automaker, which releases their sales numbers in that fashion. Now, whether or not Mercedes sales should be split off from those of the Chrysler Group is an argument for another day. We just think it's convenient for some journalists to change the unofficial rules of the game to suit a sensational headline.
[Source: the Detroit News - "A NEW BIG 3?"]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
ryan 12:35PM (2/02/2007)
"In the past, Ford had always been counted as sales from Ford, Lincoln, Mercury and the Premier Automotive Group that includes Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and Volvo. If all those brands are counted, which they usually are, Ford sold 166,835 vehicles."
-Autoblog,
How come Ford does not count Mazda? Just curious.
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The other Bob 12:55PM (2/02/2007)
Ryan-
While Mazda often shows up in ads as a division of Ford, in reality Ford only owns about one thrid of the company. Japan prohibits a foreign-owned company - in this case Ford - from owning more than one third of a Japanese company.
This is another form of protectionism we often hear people compalaining about. A Japanese company could buy up Ford, but Ford can only own part of Mazda.
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John Neff 12:55PM (2/02/2007)
#1: Because Ford only owns about a third of Mazda, not even a controlling stake.
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Edsel 12:58PM (2/02/2007)
Unit sales is purely a public relations numbers game. I want to know net profit per unit.
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Steve 1:09PM (2/02/2007)
By Japanese law 1/3rd is a controlling stake. How can you not count MB when its a "Merger of equals".
Agreed, Japan needs to open up their markets to our product or we should start closing ours to theirs. Free trade goes both ways.
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wally 1:20PM (2/02/2007)
THERE ARE STILL #4 & FALLING JUST WATCH HONDA CATCH THEM!!!!
FORD AS BIG PROBLEMS SOME WHICH HAVE NOT SURFACED YET!!!!!
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Karn 1:38PM (2/02/2007)
Nice article, Mr. Neff. Thank you for an even-handed piece.
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SpellingBee 7:36PM (2/02/2007)
"THERE ARE STILL #4 & FALLING JUST WATCH HONDA CATCH THEM!!!!
FORD AS BIG PROBLEMS SOME WHICH HAVE NOT SURFACED YET!!!!!"
Who is this secret agent?? Tell us wally what hasn't surfaced yet? But please you don't have to yell. People on here are concerned about things Ford isn't even worried about. Ford said they don't care what number they are. They are more concerned with getting out of the red right now. Who cares what number they are?
This business cycles. Ford may be on a downswing right now but they will be back up soon enough. Don't be surprised if in 10 years toyota and honda are on the downswing and Ford and GM are back at the top. I know GM is still at the top but they are also on a downswing.
I am sure every import fanboy is gonna bash me for saying that but it is just the way business works.
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DDL 5:29PM (2/02/2007)
RE: #2 and #3, Ford does have controlling interest in Mazda. How do you think guys like Mark Fields end up being CEO?
All brands sold by the parent corporation should be counted. Period.
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Brandon 3:06PM (2/02/2007)
#2 -
The U.S. engages in protectionism as well. There are a number of Federal laws limiting foreign ownership in multiple industries. It's not just Japan. Not to mention the (fortunately and finally gone) U.S. steel tariff. We are hardly innocent.
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D-Dog 3:05PM (2/02/2007)
A more chilling number is Ford's (incl. PAG) market share of 14% for January, down a full two points from their 2006 year end total of 16%. Ford is bleeding badly and bandaid products are not going to stop their death spiral. Ford needs some hot sellers, quick!
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Tony 4:30PM (2/02/2007)
Does Toyota count Scion and Lexus ?
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DB97 5:46PM (2/02/2007)
RE: #12, even though Ford has a controlling interest in Mazda, Ford does not own Mazda.
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Aardappel 8:10PM (2/02/2007)
It be more logical to say Mercedes is #3, since effectively they own the Chrysler group, not the other way around. Whereas for Ford, they own PAG.
When you talk about ranking, you are talking about which corporate giant is bigger, so it makes no sense to split one up on the basis of brands, and not the other. If you are going to do that, you might as well split up Chrysler and Dodge etc, and we all know that they are identical cars.
And to continue, they should not be ranked on sales, but on sales * average car price. There's a reason Mercedes is "big" even with a 10th of sales of Chrysler, because it is a lot more remarkable to sell a S65 than a Sebring (a 10x price difference), with margings skyrocketing.
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ryan 6:03PM (2/02/2007)
Thanks to all for the explanation, I still confused :-(
Soo, a controlling intrest in Mazda gives Ford enough "ownership" to include the Mazda brand in their ads, but not in sales? Ahhuh, I'm confused!
Also, does any of Mazdas profits go into Fords hands?
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Howard Kerr 7:56PM (2/02/2007)
Wow, Ford and Chrysler (okay, DCX) fighting it out for 3rd place. I'll bet it's been at least 50 years or more since Chrysler has been this close to overtaking Ford.
Really, at one point...I think in the '40s or '50s, Plymouth was right behind Ford in sales. Yes...PLYMOUTH.
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RamSport47 9:07PM (2/02/2007)
16. It be more logical to say Mercedes is #3, since effectively they own the Chrysler group
The Corporation that owns Chrysler AND Mercedes is DaimlerChrysler AG. The merged the Chrysler name into the corporate name because, although you all may not realize it, The Chrysler name is very important in the automotive industry. Without them, you would have waited alot longer times to get some advancements you now take for granted (power brakes, automatic trnasmissions, alternators, many many more)
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Danny 9:25PM (2/02/2007)
as a person montreal, i think ford show concentrate his strategy on the compact car like focus, yaris.....
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http://geocities.com/vaiowallpaper/
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LaughingTooHard 10:46PM (2/02/2007)
You heratic! How dare you say Toyota is vunerable to downsizing? Hehe yeah, when the 60 and over set get other options for a car besides the Scion they might be in trouble. The new Aura and Malibu will take a bite out of Camry sales for sure. And since the tax credits for the Hybrid have dried up (and with gas down to $2.19 in NY and $1.95 in the mid-west) people might actually see the bad-hybrid math doesn't add up to um anything.
Toyota is not dead by any long shot, but the same factors that caused them to rise to stardom can put them back in the "Value Leader" category much to the fat Toyota exec's fears. This time it won't be GM and Ford they fight for sales, but will be the lean smart and talented Korean auto makers.
Don't be too shocked if it takes Toyota longer than a year to top GM's world wide sales. They still have long way to go to #1 in the US.
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Barney 12:37AM (2/03/2007)
Figures don't lie but lier's figure. It don't matter who's on first or third etc. It matters if they make profit. Who makes most profit isn't necessarily the one who sells most cars nor is the one who sells most cars, the one who makes the best cars. So what's the big deal? Rolls-Royce once made the best for the most money
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