New Civic Type-R not living up to its moniker?
The buff books across the pond have gotten their hands on the new Civic Type-R and for the first time, we're not particularly disappointed that we won't be getting Honda's hottest hatch.
Although both reviews we've read (links are at the bottom of the post) say that the new vehicle has made marginal improvements over its forbears, both Car and AutoCar seem to be less than impressed.
Power output has been increased by exactly one pony, but even with the revised VTEC engagement point and smoothed-out power band, the added heft took the thrill out of a previously thrilling vehicle. Additionally, the steering input was much more responsive when compared to the outgoing model, yet Honda decided to nix the Civic's independent rear suspension in favor of a torsion beam rear-end. One step forward, one step back.
Traditionally, Honda's R-badged offerings were made for a select group of enthusiasts, willing to sacrifice some amenities (A/C, sound deadening material, etc.) for a potent driving experience. Unfortunately, that ethos seems to be lost on this newest Type-R and, for the first time, we're wary of the future of Honda's performance division.
Tip props to Rocket Punch.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
sp 8:28PM (1/31/2007)
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It’s better looking, makes you smile when you open the door and grab a look at the interior and the twin cam’s performance is more accessible, too. It’s still not the all-rounder the torque-laden Golf is, but the gap is closer than ever and the Civic feels more exciting. And when it comes down to it, that's what hot hatches are all about. Once again, the Type R won't be everyone's cup of tea - it requires effort and could be a little more communicative - but those who do indulge will likely love (almost) every minute.
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Doesnt seem they dont like it... It seems it is better than ever?
Or was just another try to discredit Japanese car manufacturers, without actually reading the articles?
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Matt 8:33PM (1/31/2007)
#1
Discrediting Japanese manufacturers is at least more original than going after domestics. ;)
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chris 8:38PM (1/31/2007)
Probably a lot of the reason for the Type-R being less of a Type-R these days is more and more focus is being put on Europe (UK specifically), whereas I'm not even sure this thing will be sold in Japan. They're just relying on tuned versions of the sedan (the one that's also in Australia, not the American one) instead.
But yeah, the articles don't seem to be as negative as you're making them out to be. Seems to be the same kind of response the Renaultsport Clio 197 is getting, generally a better car than the previous 182 but it's a lot heavier which isn't exactly wanted in this kind of car.
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JAy 8:41PM (1/31/2007)
I didn't get the impression they didn't like it either when reading the articles. They said that it doesn't have the versatility of the Golf (sorry Rabbit ...snicker) GTI but it is always more fun.
I also read a while back that they might do a Type-RR version (a bit like they do with sports bikes). This might be the powered-up, stripped down version that the hardcore people want while the softer majority will go for the more comfortable R. Either way Honda is following the demand of customers. For example: How hard is it to find a Manual car these days? People tend to be buying boring safe cars.
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Tyson 8:57PM (1/31/2007)
the rear suspension is because the UK civic is a fit/jazz. its nothing like the japanese or US civic.
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Damon Lavrinc 9:06PM (1/31/2007)
After reading both articles, I got the sense that this was strictly a tarted up version of the base model and that the previous version had more prowess in the driving department. From the perspective of a past Integra Type-R owner (1998 #0830), the Type-R nameplate seems to have been softened on this latest version and that lets the brand down.
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naggs 9:18PM (1/31/2007)
ive heard that it doesnt even handel as well as the american Si, a larger and heavier car.
the formula is really simple, make a good small car, make a version with a big engine and call it an Si, and make a striped out version with track tuned suspension and call it the type r.
a type r version of the american si would almost certainly be better than the honda fit based type r in europe.
who would have thought that the good civic would be the one engineered in Ohio, gg jap fanbois
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JIM 9:41PM (1/31/2007)
I have not been impressed by the new Civic and the Type-R does nothing to change my opinion. Honda could make such a great car if were to put a little effort into it. They seem to have taken a populist approach to the spending of their engineering dollars rather than going after their historical demographic of enthusiasts.
If only they'd make a two-seat rear-drive lightweight fastback. That's how they could differentiate themselves from other sport compact makers.
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Alain 9:43PM (1/31/2007)
It's a damned Honduh! It'll never impress, there are far better choices out there... just don't look to the Far East.
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Nick 5:42PM (2/01/2007)
Interesting that they mentioned that the Focus ST costs about the same, even though the Focus is a more powerful and far torquier car. I'd take the Focus. Though I must say the car looks great... which is what most people care about anyway.
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Peter 10:50PM (1/31/2007)
I don't care about Type-R but I would prefer the hatchback because it looks sporty and is more practical than a trunk. Here is a pic of the Diesel hatch that has less platic bits. I think it looks better and would get great mileage.
http://www.autonet.hr/userdocsimages/Test/Honda%20Civic%202.2%20i-CTDi%20Sport/Honda%20Civic%202.2%20i-CTDi%20Sport%201280x1024.jpg
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Matt 11:45PM (1/31/2007)
Why does Honda refuse to give their cars a decent amount of power(even the "Racing" versions)? The Civic Type-R would have its ass handed to it by a Camry... or a Fusion.. hell, maybe even an Aveo... no, not the Aveo. It would be a close race though.
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Jason 11:48PM (1/31/2007)
Hot hatches are slowing losing market interest anyway. This is just another sign of it. The days of Fast and the Furious have come and gone and kids are into other cars and things now. Just like minivans and SUVs, hot hatches are a niche that has an expiration date on it. Trends change. You've heard it here first.
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naggs 1:51AM (2/01/2007)
it is true that the fast furious ricer fad has peaked
people will always mod their cars, but the word is out that bolting a fart can and a wing on a civic hatch doesnt change the fact that you still only have 100 whp
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jfrolang 1:24AM (2/01/2007)
Where did this idea come from that the Civic hatch is based on the Fit? They're completely different platforms. It's true that the hatch shares almost nothing with the coupe/sedan, but it's not a Fit/Jazz.
The US Civic coupe/sedan wasn't engineered in Ohio, either. They may be built there (along with a slew of other plants all over the world), but I promise you they were designed in Japan.
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chris 3:16AM (2/01/2007)
'Hot hatches' are increasing in popularity more and more in Europe (where this car is made and sold, it has nothing to do with the American market) due to fuel costs and smaller cars becoming more upscale. They're bought by people who need the practicality of a hatch while also being a fun car to drive, not the kind of people who watch terrible Hollywood car movies.
I don't know why you're doing all this 'ricer' bashing either, not even the most car-illiterate person would think that a spoiler or wing adds engine power to a car. They do exterior modifications that have no performance advantage because they think it looks good. Are you going to say that rednecks think that having the image of a bird on the hood of their car makes it go faster? Or do you only have ridiculously stupid criticisms towards people that drive Japanese cars?
How are minivans something that will fade away either? People buy them because they need them, not simply because they want them. It's almost like saying food is a niche product that will eventually fade away into obscurity.
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Brooks 3:58AM (2/01/2007)
It's unfortunate that the Japanese have fallen into the trap of making each new generation bigger, heavier, and toned down.
As for making fun of ricers, I'm surprised that it's not obvious. These are people who put a lot of time and money into making their car *look* fast (to the uneducated) rather than *be* fast. It's generic poser behavior, but when applied to fairly lame asian cars, the pejorative "ricer" tag makes sense. It's not PC, I guess, but it's pretty inevitable.
And sure, there are plenty of idiots who think a giant chicken on their hood makes their car look fast (or at least who did so in the 1970's). I'm fine with calling them rednecks, but really that term covers a wide range of idiotic behavior.
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Jason 6:38AM (2/01/2007)
To #15 and the rest. Minivans are way out. Check any article, stat, and publication for the last 4 years. Minivan sales are flat and a losing battle for most manufacturers. SUV's have replaced them. And now, SUV's are out thanks to gas prices. Trends come and go. Remember muscle cars from the 60's and 70's? Remember full size station wagons of the 80's? Gone and gone. Hot hatches are slowly dying. One thing that caused this is Honda and Mitsubishi's lack of decent product in the last 6 years. The last two Eclipses have been complete failures with the youth. And the last Civic hatch (pre-2006) was also a complete failure. The Focus was good in it's beginning, but got old after 4 model years with no decent updates. When major manufacturers abandon the masses and let stogey designs linger, the market interest naturally transfers elsewhere. This is exactly what has happened. Honda and Mistu did not properly support the Fast and Furious in which they created. Again, you heard it hear first. It's not rocket science if you follow car trends on a daily basis.
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Gooch 7:35AM (2/01/2007)
Jason, hot hatches have been around since the Mini Cooper of 1962 and the first VW GTI (European) in 1977. Hardly a "fad." Perhaps in America, where VW let GTI enthusiasts down with the Mk3 chassis of the GTI (then picked up momentum with the Mk4 and now is completely back with MkV), you might say that, but the Mk3 not selling well was less "fad" than the fact VW didn't do it right. True GTI fans are not the ones who messed the car up -- the manufacturer did. No one will buy it if it ain't right.
The R-Type will prove this correct -- if it ain't right, true drivers will not buy it.
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Ryan 7:55AM (2/01/2007)
Just FYI, this isn't the 'real' Type-R directly from Japan. For whatever reason Honda decided to make a Euro-only version that is pretty similar to our own Si.
http://www.honda.co.jp/CIVICTYPE-R/prototype/
THAT is the car that will live up to a Type-R "heritage", if any of them.
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