Engine wars! Ford sues International
For those of you plagued with the apparent injector problems on your 6-liter PowerStroke V8, you'll be pleased to know that Ford isn't taking any guff from the engine's supplier, International Truck and Engine Corp.
We won't bore you with all the details, but the short and sweet of this particular legal fight is Ford's assertion that International is trying to rip them off, price-wise, on the new 6.4-liter diesel that the company is supplying them, and that International still owes Ford upwards of $500 million because of engine problems reported by some 12,000 customers of the former diesel-powered, F-series pickup.
No matter, Automotive News contends that your next Ford Super Duty will still arrive this spring at a dealership near you.
[Source: Automotive News – Sub. Req., Forbes]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sau 7:59AM (1/13/2007)
Ford grows more and more!
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GhostDoggy 8:33AM (1/13/2007)
Here is a WayForward idea. How about Ford trying making an engine to put into their vehicles. They could do it right, make a claim that there is 100 percent USDA Ford motor in their Ford trucks, and obsolve themselves of external vendor problems in this area.
Oh, wait a second. The F in Ford is facade, meaning they build pretty trucks to look at and not engines to make them go zoom, zoom. BTW, $500 Million divided by 12,000 is $41666. That is an expensive engine to be putting into those trucks considering the price they leave the lot for.
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Way2go 9:01AM (1/13/2007)
1 retard divided by 1 retard still equals 1 retard
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Chris 9:07AM (1/13/2007)
Hey Ghostdummy, first of all, the other domestic diesel trucks available both have engines from outside sources as well, Dodge-Cummins, GM-Isuzu. Second, Ford is stepping up with the upcoming turbo-diesel for the F150/Expedition and manufacturing themselves. Not even your sacred Toyota will be doing that, if they release a Tundra diesel here, it will most likely be an Isuzu engine.
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motorman 9:39AM (1/13/2007)
why would a normal person want a diesel unless you drive 50,000 to 100,000 miles a year and even then there is no savings because of the higher price of diesel fuel,higher price of the diesel engine package and higher maintenance with filter changes and repairs.
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Richard Warren 9:44AM (1/13/2007)
#2 Those 12,000 vehicles, cover labor paid to dealers as part of the warranty repair as well as out of pocket for Ford, buy backs and something else, an agreement for damages from lawsuits.
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AZMike 10:14AM (1/13/2007)
motorman,
you really hit that one on the head. after owning diesels from every manufacturer, I realized this. I call it "the big lie".
I started buying Dodge V-10s, and there was no comparison. first, the V-10 was a $600 option (not $6,000 like the diesel). the V-10 started flawlessly in any weather. a diesel owning friend commented that "he could hear the tires on the road" in my truck, unlike his diesel. in a diesel, you hear one thing; the rattling engine. when I'm heading on a coast-to-coast-to-coast trip, this is not something I look forward to.
if you travel a lot, good luck finding diesel fuel in out-of-the-way places. and to all you farm guys who want to argue the point, remember those of us just passin' thru don't have access to those farm tanks (with no road tax) that you do. there have been days I've driven on state highways all over the country for literally hundreds of miles, and not one diesel pump.
speaking of pumps, another sore point with diesel. for those who have never filled a diesel, bear in mind that diesel fuel foams. if you're filling the tank at a truck stop (theirs pump really fast) be sure to stand back when the pump clicks off. it will usually spit back about four feet. now you can spend the next few minutes waiting for the foam in your tank to subside, so you can attempt to complete filling it. don't forget to have your glove, either; the pump handles are usually covered in diesel fuel, as well as the ground around it. diesel on your shoes always makes a nice aromatic addition to your interior.
want to talk about economy? well, when the BS stops, a diesel towing 6,000-10,000 pounds will be getting in the 12-14 miles per gallon range, depending on geography and frontal area of what you're towing. guess what? I got the same mileage with the gas engine. did I mention that gasoline is 20-50 cents cheaper per gallon, and I can find it anywhere?
have a problem with a diesel? get our your checkbook, or a credit card with a big limit. if you look at a labor chart in ANY shop, working on a diesel is always a lot more than a gas engine. I love to tell you about problems with the V-10, but didn't ever have any. my '97 Dodge V-10 had 604,000 miles when I sold it in '02 (not one problem, still with original untouched engine and transmission). my '03 had 230,000 miles when I sold it in May of 2006.
I lied. the '03 did have one problem. a rubber emission hose near the fuel tank needed to be replaced at 97,000 miles. that cost a whopping $108 at a dealer.
Mike
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Diesel Mechanic 10:17AM (1/13/2007)
The 6.0 is a big POS. I doubt the new engine will be much better. The Cummins is a great motor wrapped in a peice of sh*t!!The Duramax is clearly the best diesel on the market!!!
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Craig Cote 2:33PM (1/15/2007)
Ford should have done what GM did, (you know that company with the 'American Revolution" thing going on, and all that Mellencamp "From The Heartland" bullcrap as well, and just buy a Honda engine like they do for Saturn-the company that was formed to "out Japanese" the Japanese. Maybe sell themselves to the Germans like Chrysler/Dodge/JEEP and then still depict themselves as an American company decieving what customers there are out there left who try to buy "American". Ever since my WW2 era mother went out and bought herself a "Ford" thinking she was putting bread and butter on the table of some Detroit area families and supporting her country, and then I was the one, after seeing a little hidden label under the hood while doing a tuneup, that got to tell her the car was not a Ford at all but a Korean built KIA with a Ford name tag glued on, I've been watching how some, not all car companies, especially GM, Ford, and Chrysler, actually buy foreign CARS and put their names on them, (doe's Aveo ring a bell?), buy foreign car companies, (I thought you were suppose to buy American) and American car companies are by far the ones selling vehicles overloaded with parts from all over the planet. I never thought I'd see the day when Toyota of all people could make the claim that every single truck and van they sell here is built in America-this is a claim GM, Ford, and Chrysler cannot make. The truth is Toyota is the company who builds every car they sell here, and when they need a new division they create it as with Lexus and Scion, and don't go buy some foreign one as has been done by American companies with Saab, Jaguar, and MANY others. When a new Caddy has a French transmission and a 6 cly Mustang has a German engine, French or Mexican transmission, and a PALTRY 65% US/Can. parts content, while a Camry has American engine, tranny, 75% US/Can parts content and is built here-GM/Ford/Chrysler should be forced to move.
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Scott 11:40AM (1/13/2007)
Craig there's some flat out lies in your post. By no means does Toyota build every car/truck they sell here in America. They even list every month in their sales reports the percentage of U.S. built vs. imported vehicles and it's most definitely below those of GM or Ford. Both Ford and GM still employ far more U.S. workers than Toyota, not combined but individually. You are perpetuating a myth that somehow Toyota is better for the U.S., but GM alone employs something around 140,000 U.S. workers directly, not counting suppliers. Last I read Toyota employed around 36,000 directly, not counting suppliers. Hell, in Ford's restructuring 38,000 people took a buyout, yet they will still employ more U.S. workers than Toyota. The only reason Ford and GM are having to cut jobs is because people are buying cars from other companies, who in turn are creating jobs. They're not making the economy better, they're simply filling the same gap left by the downsizing of other companies. Buy a Camry if you want, just don't pretend that Toyota is more American than Ford or GM because it's BS.
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kermmy dog 2:04PM (1/14/2007)
Motorman, You said what I have said on other forums. You hit the nail on the head. You are exactly right. I drive an 86 F250 4x4 460,C-6. I tow a 10,000# travel trailer. Guys are always telling me you need a diesel. I get 5-7 MPG towing 10-11 MPG empty. I use this truck mainly to pull our RV. I drive it 5,000-6,500 miles per year. I won't live long enough if I live another 20 years to even come close to paying the cost of a diesel. $6000 option to get double the mileage. Not to mention oil, filters, etc. The other thing I see is pulling heavy weight 55-65 MPH is plenty fast enough. These guys pulling these heavy trailers 70-75+ MPH are crazy.
As for Ford and diesels, they have been a POS since they have come out IMO. Even the 7.3s if used hard 200,000 miles and cams would start to fail. I always have said there is a reason companies like UPS, FedX are changing over MB diesels. I won't believe it is all price. because the cost to change over a fleet like those companies have is costly. Ford builds a great truck It's too bad they put junk diesels in them.
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Barney 12:13PM (1/13/2007)
Navistar/International have made engines for commercial trucks only at one point. They used Nissan diesels when they made the smaller vehicles. Ford gives the specs to International and it's those specs, International must abide to. When Ford made Commercial trucks (Now sterling made by the same group as Freightliner etc.) Those trucks used components made by jobbers to "Ford specifications".
I have driven International products over twenty years. I have never had problems with them. Perhaps would have if they were bult to Ford specifications.
All in all, it makes no differance to the consumer. Someone should be standing behind the product and backing them up.
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greg curran 12:10PM (1/13/2007)
Craig: If you love japanese vehicles just say you love them. it's not necessary to make things up. Saturn by my count has 11 differnet engine options over there entire line 1 is a honda.
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aaron 6:48PM (1/13/2007)
2005 toyota buikt domestically 61.9% of what it sold.
This year that FELL sharply to only 53.6..
lol.. yeah like apple pie..
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That One Person 1:09PM (1/13/2007)
AZMike...I have been all over this country and never had a problem seeing gas stationes with diesel pumps. While you may not like diesels or have any use for them doesnt mean there arent people out there who NEED them. Any who is lying and spewing BS? Yes, "normal" people who dont work construction or haul stuff for a living dont need a diesel. Thats just ridiculous. But there is a need for them. And I was sad when Dodge discontinued the V-10 in the Ram.
And Craig, you are a moron.
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TJ 1:09PM (1/13/2007)
I have a feeling Ford's specifications can be summed up in 'competitive with Cummins and Duramax'
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BSFC 1:59PM (1/13/2007)
Ford will essentially force any supplier into bankruptcy. Anyone who has dealt with Ford as a customer will agree that they are an absolute mess. Engineers that don't have a clue as to what they are doing yet force suppliers into meeting unreasonable expectations. Ford teaches their engineers to get into the "shorts" of all its' suppliers and not letting them focus on the true engineering. That is precisely what happened at International. The upper management at International did not have the balls to keep Ford and their messed up processes out of the building. Ford comes in and asks for workplan after workplan while the real engineering is left for "another day".
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gary 2:17AM (1/14/2007)
Gee, didn't Ford sue Firestone years ago too for the big bucks. And the problem that time was Ford using a lower tire pressure than what Firstone recommended for safety.
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robino 2:17PM (1/13/2007)
Gee, I've had two service managers and one Ford rep tell me there have been no major problems with the injectors on our 6-liter deisel Ford fleet. Last Fords for us - the new Tundra is going to be getting a close look from our company.
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W 2:20PM (1/13/2007)
AZMike; I don't care, I am going to buy a diesel car anyway.
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