I can't ever imagine purchasing a chinese vehicle that directly profits a chinese government owned entity. Its bad enough half of our american manufacturers in textiles and other markets use chinese companies to make the goods but at least the profits go to an american entity. You drive around in a Changfeng it just screams to me "I support a communist regime and I'm proud of it".

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I have no problem buying products of democratic, fairly free economies similar to ours. Those countries often share a similar world view, and our trade is somewhat mutually beneficial. Even Toyota's growing power in the U.S. market will prove to be healthy. They invest here and grow good jobs. Chinese labor practices are a danger to manufacturers everywhere it is accepted. China is not one of those countries that gives us mutually beneficial trade.

The choice to buy or not buy a Chinese vehicle should be a moral one, which many consumers will, unfortunately, make only based on the bottom line.

Short term bargains may have long term consequences.

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Anyone who even considers buying one should realize that they will contribute to the erosion of their own standard of living.

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A-- I seem to recall posting awhile back that the Chinese would be here with real cars. worth buying, in 3 years. I think they are the major threat to American makers, VW, secondary Japanese brands, etc.

B-- Poster number one: I get your reasoning. Why not apply it to a country which enslaved and killed many millions of people, while claiming they were a superior race, destined to rule the world? This country, today, prides itself on dominance of many areas of manufacturing and technology>
...You thinking Germany when you read this?
...I am thinking JAPAN, whose atrocities are more forgotten, because those they killed and enslaved were mostly not of European blood.
...Of course, one could mention Russia, in terms of deaths and cruelty.
How about a Venezuelan car, next?

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The collective mentality of the Oriental cultures display a distinct disadvantage when it comes to innovation. They have demonstrated time and time again that when it comes to delivering a product that can be appreciated by enthusiasts and connoisseurs, they will ultimately fail. Even their knock-offs cannot possibly hope to equal the superiority of individually-minded societies.

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My willingness to trade is conditional, but not set in stone. Japan is a far different country from what it was 65 years ago. Our trade with them is mutually beneficial. My argument is not based on grudges, but current realities. That line of reasoning could be used to justify not buying Mercedes SUV's because Alabama once had slaves doing the labor. The south Is different now. So is Germany and Japan. I single out Toyota in particular, not just as a marker of a modern, post-Imperial Japan (the Emperor is just a figurehead, much like the queen of England), but as an example of a foreign auto manufacturer who is a big producer in our economy, not just a bargain wares seller.

Of course the moods in a country change rapidly. Were the Japanese to suddenly experience a resurgence of bellicose nationalism and saber rattling, I would definitely rethink my decision.

But remember, not grudges, but realities.

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Many Americans, if not most, have voted with their wallets in deciding to buy Chinese made consumer goods. As long as these trucks/suvs are of decent quality, no need need to be class leading, and they are dirt cheap, they will find buyers. I believe they pose more of a threat to the Japanese in the full-size pickup market, as the Japanese have not yet established a loyal base. In small SUVs and pickups, the domestics are vulnerable, as their products are lagging...Ford, do you hear the footsteps?

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#1 - Get a life. Nobody cares about your political tirade. On the other hand, to turn your post around, did you ever stop to think that the consumers that only care about the bottom line bring about a need for low cost manufacturing? Where would we be if there were no countries in the world that provided cheap products for the rest of the developed economies? For instance, would you pay 5x the price for the T-Shirt you're wearing? Certainly, it is possible that everybody would be worse off due to lower real GDP if we all subscribed to your communist economics.

I think your intentions are commendable - to help workers in poverty - but, you have to realize that cheap goods do in fact help US economy by spurring consumption and minimizing inflation.

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#2: WW2 has been over for 60+ years. Let it go.

The Chinese employ slave labor TODAY. Not in some distant past or as part of a historical footnote.

Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were crushed; democracies were the result and are the reality of today. They tend to produce quality goods with well paid labor in a variety of nations.

#1 isn't saying to avoid Chinese goods because at one time in the past their government did reprehensible things, but rather because they are and continue to do those things now. Today. They employ slave labor, they artificially inflate their currency, and the list goes on.

In the USA our trade with China is so lopsided it's tragic. The Chinese State steals IP then resells it to the rest of the world as cheap knok-offs. Which is fine by them becuase hey, they're not stealing from other Chinese folks. Funny how the Chinese government had no problem clamping down on knock off and couterfiet goodies for the Bejing Olympics. But OMG, they can't seem to get a handle on music, movie, software nad other piracy.

No, when I can (getting hard to do) I avoid sending my money China and for good reason. When they learn to play fair with the rest of the worlf trade-wise I'll be glad to buy their stuff, but I imagine by then their slaves might actually get paid and producing their trucks and SUVs might not be so cheap.

So, until then ejoy your Frod and Sorny products. You get what you pay for.

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As Karl Marx once wrote, "when it comes time to hang capitalism, we'll find a capitalist to sell us the rope".

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James,

It's hardly a tirade--just an observation and a moral choice. I do have a life and a need for economy. I don't drive a Ford Focus because I like it better than a mini; I drive it because I can afford it! Hopefully, slaves only built a few parts of it.

Uh, how is my desire to vote my conscience with my dollars a marker of Communism?

I enjoy these boards, but there sure are a lot of flamers hanging around...

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They'll need to hire a decent American marketing firm first. I'll treasure the DVD they handed out at the show forever because of its unintended humor.

There are actually three videos on the disc. The first was shown at the show. The second is the same, with four extra minutes of footage (total of 13). The third is the same as the second, but in Chinese.

So, they simply took a video made for the Chinese market, literally translated it into English, then trimmed it to fit the available time slot. You know, the first thing they tell you in B-school not to do when trying to sell in a foreign country.

The results include this concluding paragraph:

"The new century has started. Dragons are taking off in the new millienum, and cheetahs are leaping forward in the new century. Dragons are taking off to indicate the resurrection of China as a nation. Cheetahs are leaping forward to present a powerful auto industrial village. With world's leading technologies to build a leading brand on the SUV market in China, Changfeng Group."

This and odd bits from the information sheets they handed out in my post about the second day of the show:

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/naias2.php

May everyone feel full of momentum and great dignity!

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OOB - I mention communism loosely because your original post seems to disdain Chinese automobiles because they do not pay nearly enough. I agree that Chinese workers are very underpaid, no question. I've even visited several manufacturing plants and spoken to the workers about their conditions. However, I do not think it is correct to say that trade between US and China is not mutually beneficial - the workers leave home at a young age to work at these factories so that they can provide for their families that would otherwise have an even lower standard of living. This is not slave labor, as many have mentioned. Without these and other manufacturing jobs, the low class Chinese citizens would still be in a bad situation, if not worse off.

As a previous poster mentioned, there are not enough jobs in China, whether it is due to the lack of creativity to produce proprietary intellectual property to spur growth, or because simply the economy hasn't reached that stage of development. However, during the time of the Industrial Revolution, I believe similar situations plagued those factory workers - low wages, long hours, implorable working conditions, etc.

My point is that you cannot look at it from your point of view driving your nice Ford Focus, while the vast majority of the world's population is in poverty. For many, a job regardless of its conditions provides subsistence in an environment that would otherwise not support it.

Personally, as unethical as it may be, low cost manufacturing benefits all parties involved. Developed countries receive low-cost goods and services, developing and third-world countries get a chance to improve the standard of living for its citizens. I am not discounting the hardship of these workers, as I've seen firsthand how awful the conditions are, for example, making by hand small metal brackets while coolant is pouring down to keep the drill bits at operating temperature. That is about as bad as it gets. But the workers still do it, because it is better than starving to death.

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#2. Japan, Germany, China and Russia certainly had bloody histories but are we exempt? We took these lands from the Native Americans, we enslaved them, humilated them, took away their rights and continue doing that in a less institutionalized manner.

Dont blame Japan. Blame your self. been noticng too many racist like attitudes pourin out of people here. neways, what #1 is sayin is that China is still one of the worlds largest abuser of human rights and buyin their cars is like making a direct statement of support to that communistic regime.

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I think Chinese automakers should pertner with Walmart to give the consumer a better deal than buying cars from existing automakers selling in the US.

Again I have to mention that whenever there is any mention of products from China especially automobiles there is that "persecusion complex" that people like Chris, poster 5 have who think that "The collective mentality of the Oriental cultures display a distinct disadvantage when it comes to innovation."

Chris, I think that the The collective mentality of the White good ol' boy American cultures display a distinct disadvantage when it comes to providing equal employment and advancement opportunity for other races right here in America."

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These responses make me laugh -- From the time you wake up until the time you sleep little if anything you use or eat is made in the USA. Every "Made in China" product you buy supports the Chinese Government and the Chinese are the world's 800lb Gorrilla right now. There is huge displacement of wealth in the world. The Chinese are still communist in some ways and very capitalistic in other ways. A tour of Shanghai and you would think you were in NYC.

On topic -- given the complaining we do around this forum about the form and function of cars, it will be a long time before these cars appeal to the US consumers and meet our safety and fuel standards. The Chinese barely have traffic laws I would love to see them implement our miles of red tape. There is always someone who will look for "cheap" and if they want to be the cheapest you can buy or loose money, then they have a market. I also believe SUVs is a mistake to start given how they are on the decline. If this company starts in the US is will be because some communist party fool believes he can steal money in china by bringing a car here. Above all -- China is very currupt and will be so for many years to come and many money making ventures are just creative ways to steal money and make believe they are making jobs.

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jack? "Persecution complex"? There is nothing that contradicts what I've posted, especially with regard to Chinese lack of regard for intellectual property and the lack of innovation in the Far East in general. Japan was only the beginning. The Chinese are following the collectivist Japanese model, merely aping Western designs and technologies. This is a cultural phenomenon, not a race issue. We shouldn't shy away from the truth for the sake of political-correctness. Your puerile reworking of my previous post does nothing to bolster your credibility, nor does it reveal anything vital to this discussion.

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I'm a Chinese, I have no willing going against all the bitching and bashing of China above. Yes some of you saw some facts, but none of you have a basic sense of ... history. but that's not your faults. It's beyond all of you to take historic factors into your concerns and the un-seen power of the un-interrupted long-lasting 5000 years of Chinese culture even beyond Chinese people ourself.

And don't call China a communist country PLZ, what we have today is bad-capitalism.

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This is AutoBlog...isn't it? Some of these posts, including their VERY bad spelling (persecusion?) read like something out of MAD magazine.

I really loved the rationalization of paying slave wages for work in "underdeveloped" countries. That is, it's good that these folks receive an almost token wage...instead of no wage? I watched a PBS special last night in which it said that workers in some consumer electronics factories in China are paid the equivalent of $26 per WEEK...working a job for 12 hours a day, 5 and 6 days a week. The result of this is that folks the world over can buy a DVD player for $45 instead of ...$85. If you turn this around, the "demand" for cheap goods in countries like the U.S. means that workers (here and elsewhere) will ALWAYS have their wages squeezed by corporations like Wal-Mart.

Finally, to get back to the subject at hand, I agree with the posters who say "what is the point of sending yet another pickup or SUV into the already crowded market?" If low price REALLY did guarantee success, YUGO would be the number 1 car company in the U.S.

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So we shouldn't buy Chinese cars because they are oriental and not white western. Sounds like a perfectly good reason. I think we must punish those slanted eyed, yellow people on the other side of the pacific. We all know that just because all the western companies have set up their factories in China does not mean the chinese aren't culpable in making all the things people in American go out in droves to buy. We must punish those evil Chinese who dare to work in those factories. Why should they have a chance at a better life when it means our our beautifal white people would have to suffer joblessness. Don't those people know we are a superior race and that we have invented all things of value in the world? No, fireworks must have been a western investion first and so is porcelain and paper and printing. No, those yellow people couldn't invent anything if they wanted to because they are inferior.

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