Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, China, Green, Plants/Manufacturing, GM
Shanghai Surprise: Wagoner announces GM hybrid plan for China
GM honcho Rick Wagoner was in Shanghai today, showing off the Sequel fuel-cell concept and announcing that come 2008, GM will begin building and selling a hybrid vehicle for the Chinese market. Currently, General Motors is the second largest automaker in the country, and is enjoying healthy growth there, with sales up over 36% versus last year.
No specific details on the Chinese hybrid were announced. In fact, it's not even known under which GM marque it'll be sold at this time. What is known is that the car will be based on existing GM tech, which will be subsequently adapted for Chinese use by GM's local partner, Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC). SAIC will also be tasked with producing the vehicle. In his Financial Times piece on the topic, writer Geoff Dyer notes that China may well be a very favorable market for alternative-fueled vehicles, as it lacks the gasoline fueling infrastructure that's already present in fully matured automobile markets.
That's one of the more interesting takeaways from the piece. One doesn't usually associate emerging markets with the highest-tech vehicles, but in the case of China, it could be a useful proving ground for them specifically because of that "growth" status. As for which GM hybrid technology will be used for the Chinese car, we have no idea, but it wouldn't be surprising to see the "light" hybrid system used in the Vue Green Line applied. The new dual-mode system headed for the big trucks isn't (yet) geared for front-engine/FWD configurations, so the other setup kind of wins by process of elimination.Then again, this might present the General with the perfect opportunity to showcase the dual-mode hybrid in FWD mode.
Whatever the choice is, we'll find out soon enough.
[Source: Geoff Dyer, Financial Times]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
RZ 11:04PM (11/06/2006)
""announcing that come 2008, GM will begin building and selling a hybrid vehicle for the Chinese market. "" Is this a JOKE? If it is, i am not laughing. That fool Wagoner can't make a hybrid in USA...where does he get off saying that he will sell one in China.
I am literally speechless. Am i the only one to see this article for what it is, something between propaganda and a very bad joke.
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GrowUp 11:12PM (11/06/2006)
You do realize that Saturn already has one hybrid with another on the way, right?
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RZ 11:29PM (11/06/2006)
A mild hybrid.....in English a HALF assed one.
Look do you honestly think that i do not know anything about cars....you think i do not know what GM sells?
But i do have a question for you....you honestly do not think that there's a difference between Silverado, Saturn Green Goo, and Civic or Prius or Lexus? And before you say GM's "hybrids" are better look at the sales data.
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Barney 11:35PM (11/06/2006)
So why just China?
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RZ is a Moron 12:01AM (11/07/2006)
"A mild hybrid.....in English a HALF assed one.
Look do you honestly think that i do not know anything about cars....you think i do not know what GM sells?"
No. People born in rehab usually aren't fully aware of what their commenting on.
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Bill Maher is an Idiot 12:04AM (11/07/2006)
Please excuse RZ. He is the illegitimate child of a fired GM quality control employee.
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Tony Belding 6:28AM (11/07/2006)
Sorry guys, I've got to side with RZ on this one. The Saturn Vue Green is basically a conventional SUV to which GM added the bare minimum of batteries and an oversized starter motor so they could technically call it a hybrid -- for marketing, regulatory and tax purposes. It's sort of like how GM use "flex fuel" vehicles to score CAFE credits, it's the same old shell game.
I don't know what kind of hybrids GM are planning to take into China. If they are plug-in hybrids, this could be huge news. If they are conventional Prius-like hybrids, it's still quite interesting. If they are mild (i.e. half-assed) hybrids like the Vue Green, then it doesn't amount to much at all.
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roar 7:32AM (11/07/2006)
Most of you need to deal with the facts. There are serveral engineers that call the Vue Hybrid system the best/most affordable system on the market. If the goal is to increase mileage and reduce emmissions then what difference does it make how it is accomplished. Your "light vs. full hybrid" debate makes little sense. Having a Mid SUV that gets over 30 MPG and does not function any differently make sense for the market. Do your homework and stop listening to the auto rags. roar
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RZ 9:34AM (11/07/2006)
#8,
Look at this, www.fueleconomy.gov Saturn Vue gets approximatly 25 MPG while Vue "Hybrid" gets only 29 MPG. The difference is too small. Also cheapest Vue costs $18,000, Hybrid is $23,000---so you pay more than 1,000 per MPG. Car and Driver recently test drove the two, they are totaly down on Vue hybrid as well.
Also ho do you account for people wanting to buy Priuses, people line up to get them. The wait list is MONTHS long.
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roar 10:06AM (11/07/2006)
#9. You still do not have the facts correct. Pruis is no longer sold out, they have a very short days supply but it is no longer sold out, go to a Toyota store and find out for yourself. Drive the Vue Hybrid and form your own opinion, read an article in Popular Mechanics that discusses the syetem. I know an owner of a Vue Hybrid, daily driving, city and highway, 31.5 MPG. We all know the EPA ratings are misleading, Consumer Reports drove the Prius and average around 40MPG. Comparing a similarly eqiuiped 4cly FWD Vue and the Hybrid the cost difference is $1600 and they recieve a $650 tax credit, a true tax credit not a reduction in taxable gross income. So the real differedce is $950. Stop the speculation and get the facts. It is not a perfect system but it has some redeeming attributes. roar
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jamie 10:57AM (11/07/2006)
Go for it Ricky!
Undoubtedly GM will sell the Sequel hybrid as a Buick in China. Why? Because Buick is the BEST selling car in China right now. It outsells Honda 2 to 1 and Toyota 5 to 1. No kidding.
The economics of building hybrids in China will also bring the cost down considerably...like about 50%.
Smart move for some thinking$$$ individuals, hey what!?
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Richard Warren 11:15AM (11/07/2006)
It makes sense. China is expected to become THE largest Polluter on the planet. If auto companies can tap into that market and reduce the pollution it serves us all well. We have already strict emissions laws in the US and our thoughts on hybrids are mostly geared to fuel mileage concerns.
The other thing to think about is this, what is the largest potential market for new buyers and the potential for long term growth, that would be China.
With lower manufacturing overhead ever consider those cars might just arrive here as well? What the heck everything else says "Made in China" on it
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Artie43 11:40AM (11/07/2006)
Hmmm Seems to me that GM is all full of boasting and low on doing. The Vue is a compromise hybrid. And not that great a SUV to begin with. What was GM thinking??When GM starts making money and builds cars that CR approves in general, then maybe I will start to take GM seriously. Otherwise I consider them in a different league than Toyota and HOnda. Strictly second string when it comes to cars and hybrids. Now let's see what happens to trucks since Toyota will be taking that market real seriously now. It is never smart to bet against Toyota, the most profitable company in the automotive business. GM will probably rest on their truck laurels while Toyota becomes even a bigger threat as time goes by. What else can you expect from the giants of the American automotive industry??? Higher bonuses for top management and more red ink!!!
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Ross Anderson 4:17PM (11/07/2006)
Lets not forget that GM has been building two-mode hybrid buses for years. GM is also abbout to introduce the Tahoe and Yukon as a two-mode Hybrid.
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jimsum 5:08PM (11/07/2006)
I agree with everyone here. GM doesn't have a real hybrid; but what they sell is worthwhile technology. As many have stated, GM sells unimpressive vehicles they call "hybrids" and want consumers to think that all "hybrids" are equal. Anyone who has done some basic research knows there are big differences among the hybrids offered and each design has different costs and benefits. I personally think that a vehicle shouldn't be considered a hybrid unless the electric motor can move the car on its own; but who cares about definitions, the important question is whether a design's benefits outweigh the costs.
I don't think the start/stop feature of the Vue will save much gas; most drivers creep forward at stops, which will prevent the engine from stopping. We have been given one data point that looks pretty good (31.5 mpg over an unspecified distance). But we can't determine how much the hybrid system contributed to that figure; we don't know what mileage this individual would get in a conventional Vue or in any other hybrid. I got 55 mpg in my Prius over a 800 mile trip this summer, but I have also seen mileage in the 30's with lots of short trips in the dead of winter. My mileage varies :-)
The benefits from a Vue are going to be less than a more complete hybrid design, but the cost is less too. I'm going to guess that the Vue's lower benefits will balance out the lower costs and it will be about as good a choice as any of the "real" hybrids.
I hope this system is as cheap and beneficial as GM claims; we need more options for fuel efficient vehicles and I don't think it would help if GM sold nothing until they had a "real" hybrid. Any vehicle that sells today will be on the road for 10 years or more, and the faster GM starts selling fuel efficient vehicles, the better for everyone.
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