• Nov 4, 2006
Whatever stance you take in the automatic versus manual debate, if you haven't done so already, go out and sample a VW or Audi product equipped with the DSG transmission. All the positives – quicker shifts, better fuel economy, geek-cred – far outweigh the negatives and the fact that Porsche, BMW and even Chrysler are looking to develop their own dual-clutch gearbox, should tell you that DSGs are here to stay. Add to the fact that they may also be cheaper to produce and service, it didn't take anymore convincing for Ford and its Swedish arm, Volvo, to decide that they better throw their hat into the game.

WhatCar is reporting that a DSG-like tranny will find its way into Volvo models within the next two years and rumor has it that a high-performance version of the C30 will be one of the first vehicles to come equipped with the new gearbox.

In addition to Volvo's use of the dual-clutch setup, expect to see it carry over into Ford's vehicles as well, much like the migration from slush boxes that VW is in the process of executing.

[Source: What Car?]

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    • 1 Second Ago
  • 19 Comments
      • 8 Years Ago
      Corey - you and doglet should have lunch.

      "DSG is a "type of" automatic transmission that lets you initiate the gear change. Period."

      Not period. The only thing shared between these transmissions and traditional automtics is the concept that you can let the car automatically shift for you (if you choose). The manual selection of gears is executed quite differently. Without a doubt, a traditional manual is more involving overall and would likely reward a driver more (despite yielding inferior performance), but the benefits are tremendous.

      Failure to disassociate a DSG, SMG, MM, or (or whatever) from a normal automatic is very foolish and shows a lack of understanding of the technology at play with ANY of the transmissions being discussed. There are plenty of aritcles and technical dissertations available for those who can read - go take a look. Perhaps it will help those of you who are confused on the topic. Period.
      • 8 Years Ago
      I would think Mazda would incorporate this DSG-like transmission into their lineup quicker than Ford.
      • 8 Years Ago
      reading the responses to this post, i can't help but compare it to the time when autofocus came into the SLR market. there were those who were for it and loved the technology, and there were those who basically took the stance "You people who love AF either don't know how to operate the camera yourself, or have no idea of the joy of focusing an image yourself."

      "Some of you have driven a DSG and have lost your minds, I'm not sure if it's because you are lazy or never really embraced driving a manual. My wife can drive a manual just fine, no jerks or slipping, but she'll tell you, "I can't do any of the stuff my husband does" If you don't know what you can and can't do in a computer controller DSG transmission compared to a manual, I can't explain it other than you don't fully know how to drive a stick."

      it's statements like these that make me not want to have a manual, as i don't want to be one of "those guys". seriously, dude, what do you do special with your manual? turn water into wine? create a rift in the space-time continuum, due to your ultra smooth, super quick heel and toe? perhaps your skill in manual shifting will come in handy in the future, as those skills will be required to defend the human race against a future alien invasion?

      you know what? you can have your manual transmission and your elitism, i'll take a DSG. and not because i'm "lazy" or because i've "never embraced" a manual. i'll take a DSG because it's quick and it's fun, and it makes me feel like i'm racing around with Loeb and Gronholm.
      • 8 Years Ago
      Does anyone on this blog know how to spell the word lose?
      lose
      loser
      loses

      There is only ONE "O" in the word! Looser is what your pants are after you go on a diet. I don't consider myself a spelling nazi but I see this continually here and I just can't take it any more! Sorry to be an ass about it.
      • 8 Years Ago
      i hope they dont replace manuals, at least not in sports cars. I'll never forget the first time i tried to heel and toe, and realized it was a lot harder than it looked. When i finally got it right it was pure ecstacy. Half the enjoyment of driving a manual is rev matching. Yes DSGs may be 'better' but i highly doubt they're more entertaining. What's the point of going fast if you're not having fun?
      • 8 Years Ago
      It's not supposed to replace a manual and it never could anyway: stick lovers stick to sticks for the sensory satisfaction of shifting.

      It's supposed to replace the automatic -- notice VWs/Audis usually offer a choice between DSG and a manual -- and by incorporating close to 100% of an automatic's convenience and smoothness, it succeeds (VW's at least; not sure about BMW or the others). Consider the marginal benefits in efficiency icing on the cake.
      • 8 Years Ago
      "Whatever stance you take in the automatic versus manual debate..."

      THIS sentence opened this article, so I based my comments on COMPARING a DSG to an automatic. I haven't looked, is ANY manufacturer offering a DSG for free...as they should be doing for a manual transmission?

      As far as the comment "if it has two pedals, it's not a manual transmission..." or words to that effect, you apparently haven't been around long enough to experience VW's FIRST foray into an "automated" manual transmission. Even Chevy was offering a "two pedal" manual transmission in it's late '60s Novas...that obviously wasn't a big seller.

      I don't say that DSG is better, or it's an automatic, I DO dispute the claim that it is cheaper and less expensive to service (words taken from this article) than........what? The author doesn't say, so I assumed a MANUAL transmission. IS IT? No one has since posted an answer to that central question, though John F came closest.
      • 8 Years Ago
      tr,
      "I can't help but compare it to the time when autofocus came into the SLR market. there were those who were for it and loved the technology, and there were those who basically took the stance "You people who love AF either don't know how to operate the camera yourself, or have no idea of the joy of focusing an image yourself."

      Dude, what are you talking about?!?!?! I just showed this to a couple of co-workers who do photography on the side... and they're LAUGHING!!! Bad comparison and very weak if trying to prove a point...

      You're one of "those guys" that no matter what the technology is, you jump all over it, and make over top clams at how it's night and day compared to the previous technology. I never said anything about being "elite" or doing something no one else can do, I wasn't born driving a stick, it was taught to me. Stop trying to separate people into those that prefer a manual/hate DSG or love it, it's not that simple. I'm not taking anything away from DSG, it's a great transmission. But again, I don't need any type of justification about it from you, my opinion comes from my experience and feedback from others during an actual test drive.
      Dropping down to your level of logic, everybody take pictures right?? Do you think that, no matter SLR or not, everyone who picks up a camera has the exact same skill level? That there are not others that can take better pictures than the less experienced or casual photographers. I've been taking pictures for over 25 years, there is no way I can every consider any of my pictures on a professional level, but it doesn't mean I can't use a camera. There's no secret "manual" skills, every time this topic comes up, people pretty much say the same thing, no need for me to rehash the same problems others experience with DSG. So if you want to know why you can't turn wine into water with a DSG, I suggest you read previous blogs.

      Snyder,
      Yes, your right... I was being simplistic in my definition of transmission, when I said automatic, I meant just that... AUTOMATIC. But I forgot, I'm surrounded by automotive engineers, not anonymous, Internet identities, my error.... I should have been more concise. So lets get it right this time, it's not traditional automatic, a manual or even an automated manual, it's semi-automatic. What would be foolish is to continue to try to classify this as a manual, but since you're one of the few that can read, I'm sure your many articles and dissertations have explained this. So again, to make you and Tr feel better, while you guys are racing with Loeb and Gronholm to lunch.... Yes it shifts faster then a human being, because we all know, limited-preprogrammed gear engagement is all there is to driving a manual.
      • 8 Years Ago
      By the way, Volvo absorbed the old Dutch manufacturer DAF, well known for making CVTs...yet no current Volvo has a CVT though curiously, Ford offers one in it's European Fiesta...or used to.
      • 8 Years Ago
      "It will NEVER replace a true manual gearbox and clutch though"

      I have a feeling you're going to eat those words in a decade or so. Computer-activated clutch pack transmissions have already replaced manuals in many racing series (Formula 1, WRC, Le Mans) simply because they perform faster than a human can and they never miss a shift. They combine everything that is good about a manual - better fuel economy, the involvement of choosing your own gears. With everything that is good about an automatic - easy to drive in auto mode, less distracting, easier to operate in stop and go conditions and wile parking. The one thing you lose is that third pedal and the knowledge that "you're doing it all yourself." The vast majority of the driving public doesn't give a hoot about that, as shown by the dominance of torque-converter automatics.

      Maybe they'll "NEVER replace a true manual gearbox and clutch" in your heart, but they sure will in the marketplace.
      • 8 Years Ago
      I think the claim is DSG will eventually be cheaper than regular automatics. And like others have mentioned in this thread, don't totally write it off till you've tried it.
      • 8 Years Ago
      Ford was actually the first major manufacturer after VW to commit to DCT (=DSG). This was reported over a year ago:

      http://bwauto.com/about/in_the_news/files/an091905.pdf



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