Camry ECU won't let drivers give it the boot
A few years back I had the good fortune of owning a WRX wagon whose tenure began with me leaving it unmodified for as long as I could stand. All told, it only took about two months for all rational thought to be overwhelmed by the relentless pursuit of ponies and I found myself at a highly regarded, local tuner.
After several conversations with the owner, I was informed that the ECU of the Subie was highly adaptive and had the ability to learn a few tricks from its driver. In the end, a quick reflash of the ECU's fuel and ignition maps could bring a few more ponies to the party. All it took was a laptop and a couple dyno pulls, and I was ten HP richer.
It seems that Toyota has a similarly adaptable ECU in its Camry, which takes cues from the driver's inputs and then operates the engine accordingly. If the driver is say, timid and easy on the throttle (not going to make generalizations about Camry drivers here) then the ECU will recognize the driver's overall character and taper back on the heavy dumping of fuel and air into the cylinders.
The problem it seems, is that when said timid driver needs a boost of juice, the Camry's brain doesn't cooperate, causing driver's to complain of mild bucking and hesitation. The drive-by-wire throttle (we still like our cables, thank you) is partly to blame, as it sends the majority of information back to the ECU.
Toyota released a TSB for the issue and a quick software tweak seems to solve the problem. Only owners that recognize a hesitation in acceleration are encouraged to come in for the service, though it's safe to assume that most Camry drivers won't notice a problem.
[Source: Automotive News]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
AnonymousInsights 8:14AM (10/17/2006)
According to owners responding in forums at Edmunds.com, there are more issues than 'mild bucking'. If this was GM or Ford, the sky would be falling. Since it is Toyota it reported as a minor issue.
Stay tuned for today's Audi commercials.
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Car Chick 8:14AM (10/17/2006)
To counter your generalization of Camry drivers, the ones I see here in Tampa are THE WORST drivers. They are usually the ones flooring it, tailgating others, and darting in and out of traffic. I do occasionally see the grandma driving a Camry, but most of the time it is the clueless idiot....
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Swat Lax 8:53AM (10/17/2006)
It seems like something like this could be a clever/shady way of giving a car better mileage in the EPA tests than it should.
i.e. Car is tested and sold chipped for fuel economy, but then it becomes standard practice for the dealer to remap for performance. Is this legal?
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Leo 8:57AM (10/17/2006)
#3, from what i gathered on the report it seems that the software flashing might actualy decrease HP for drivability. they claim that he engnie was tuned for higher power adn thats what led them to have thissoftware glitch. most of the time a re-flash inthe software will not change the EPA ratings much since they always drive like 110 year old gramas and so the engine will never be pushed to deal with daily driving adn therefore very little of it will depend on the software.
but, I agree that had this been an issue on GM or Ford it would have cause their stock to fall by about 5%
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cheezwiz 9:15AM (10/17/2006)
Isn't lag when accelerating part of the "charm" of driving an automatic -- a "feature" if you will? I can't imagine the shift-happy drive too many of these.
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gs 9:26AM (10/17/2006)
This is no surprise being that Camrys are not aimed at enthusiast drivers. Camrys are for people who want a forgettable transportation appliance. As for drive by wire throttle all I can say is, "the more they over take the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain".
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Michael Karesh 9:54AM (10/17/2006)
This isn't a large enough issue to cause trouble for anyone, especially since they have a fix that involves a mere reflash. There's quite a bit of reflashing for this and that going on these days.
Anyway, if you want acceleration they do offer a most excellent V6. I drove the SE V6 last week, and the powertrain is generally excellent. The suspension isn't bad, either, about as firm as it can be without becoming rough. The steering could still use a little work, though, and the no-cost optional all-seasons provide insufficient grip.
Full review: http://www.epinions.com/content_223274110596
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MikeW 10:53AM (10/17/2006)
The problem with the V6 camry is skinny tires, only 215 width. 3 channel ABS, four wheel strut suspension, 'udder' exhaust system-although that lead a decent size 18.5 gallon gas tank, and a smallish trunk-yet is has a bangle rear end.
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Vetmstr 10:44AM (10/17/2006)
I will have to agree, If this was GM or Ford all hell would break loss.
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Gardiner Westbound 10:47AM (10/17/2006)
This is the first I have heard of this issue with Toyota 4-cylinder models. There have been widespread reports since at least MY2004 of similar drivability problems with 6-cylinder Toyota Camrys and Lexus ES and RX cars.
Speculation is Toyota engineered the drive-by-wire system to up shift early and downshift late to achieve EPA emission requirements and legally can't change it. Toyota and Lexus have been misleading and stonewalling unhappy owners since. Lemon laws have forced a few buybacks.
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Chuck 3:40PM (10/17/2006)
Toyota claims "Fly by wire" is the wave of the future for their cars (including Lexus). I don't think so. I, too, like cabled throttle.
I have two Avalons, a 2001 and 2005. The '01 is more responsive than the newer one (which has "fly-by-wire"). When I drive the '05 in stop and go traffic, the hesitation in acceleration is very noticable. For example, when my lane starts to move, and I step on the gas pedal, the car revs up but doesn't move. 1-2 seconds later, the transmission kicks in and jerks me forward.
At least Toyota issued a TSB for this problem. When I complained about my '06, the Toyota technicians basically told me to live with it.
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roadside observer 11:13AM (10/17/2006)
This reminds me of the failures with the new 6-speed automatic in the Camry earlier this past year ... if it had been a domestic car, everyone would have demanded recalls, but no such demands were made of Toyota then by the automotive press intelligensia - and they will not be made now. Wouldn't want to besmirch Toyota's reputation, after all ...
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ssgtakeo 11:30AM (10/17/2006)
#6,
Gs, the quote is
"The more they overTHINK the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
Do you have those chips from the transwarp computer for me?
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Jeff 11:56AM (10/17/2006)
Last night, I had a dream that a very large global producer of automobiles who made very cars of very average quality and with less than average looks had managed to convince the auto press and brainwashed consumers that they were the best. This company managed to hold a reputation of mythical quality while covering up their shortcomings. This company had quietly became the world's largest producer of cars for the masses.
Their dealerships grossly overcharged for the cars and pressured consumers into paying even more.
Whew, glad it was only a dream. Thank goodness I woke up.
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Bob 12:10PM (10/17/2006)
Actually, it's not a dream, Jeff. See, GM is still number one.
Scary, huh.
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Ana Coward 12:19PM (10/17/2006)
Hey, that's a great story about your Subie, but how about some relevant and important information in the summary, like which years are affect and a link to the actual TSB (or, hey, how about just a link that work?!?!)
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Jay 9:10PM (10/17/2006)
After months of reading Blogs here...this is my first post
I often read any Toyota related links just to read the negative comments. I'm not biased towards any manufacturer, but my career path has brought me in touch with many facts you just do not get from reading your typical car enthusiast magazines.
The current state of reality, or perception of reality regarding vehicle quality didn't happen over night. It took about 30 years to get where we are, and regardless of TSB's or recalls, it will take a long time to change. I think doestic manufacturers are doing much better...but it will be a long time before the average consumer buys into it.
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NoWhining 12:35PM (10/17/2006)
All you GM/Ford cry babies -- stop it! We're tired of it. Tell GM/Ford to get off their butts and build some kick-ass world-class cars -- not ones that are almost as good as Toyota.
Toyota worked hard to gain their "best in class" reputation.
GM worked hard to gain their "almost as good as" reputation.
Yes, lots of people love Toyota -- start asking yourself why, vs. crying about it.
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AnonymousInsights 12:35PM (10/17/2006)
'Actually, it's not a dream, Jeff. See, GM is still number one.'
Here are the raw numbers and I will let you decide who is #1:
2005 Revenues: GM: $192.6 bil Toyota: $186,806 b
2005 Profit GM: $-10.6 Bil Toyota: $12.119 b
Profit Change GM: -476% Toyota: $11.2%
Stock Price GM: $32.14 Toyota: $113.52
I think the Toyota product is quality-hyped(what is quality anyway and are we counting recalls where Toyota was #1 this year) and GM's product is unfairly degraded but what do the raw #'s and the bottom lines tell us about who is #1?
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PJ 12:49PM (10/17/2006)
Whenever Autoblog runs a story on Toyota's reliability issues, you guys complain that no one never mentions Toyota's reliability issues. Time to get a grip...
Does anyone know the advantage to manufacturers of using drive-by-wire throttles? Could they possibly be cheaper than cables? Because they certainly don't feel as good underfoot.
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