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Chrysler developing dual-clutch tranny for FWD vehicles
The dual-clutch gearbox's popularity has grown immensely over the past three years and that popularity only stands to grow. Average motorists have enjoyed the DSG's smooth shifting and economical fuel consumption, while enthusiasts appreciate the trick technology and uber-quick gear changes. Volkswagen already announced that they plan on replacing all their automatic transmission vehicles with DSG in the next five years and here's a stat for you -- half of all GTIs sold are equipped with paddle shifters.
DaimlerChrysler has recognized the benefits of the DSG over conventional, torque converter-equipped automatics and has decided to invest $560 million in a new assembly plant in Kokomo, Indiana to manufacturer their own version of the DSG. Partnering with Getrag, the automaker plans on creating 700,000 units annually, with production set to begin in 2009. The models that stand to benefit from the new transmission are primarily front-wheel drive vehicles, including the Avenger, Sebring and all manner of minivan. Additionally, the transmission will find an ideal partner with D.C.'s new Phoenix V6 engine, which will also make an appearance in 2010.
Industry analysts recognize that the greatest source of competition with DSGs are the continuously variable transmissions (CVTs), but one expert cited in Automotive News expects that the number of DSG-equipped vehicles in the U.S. will rise from it's current 0.2-percent to 3.3-percent by 2012. The more the merrier in our eyes.
[Source: Automotive News – Sub. Req.]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Justin 8:42AM (10/09/2006)
I admit I don't really know too much about these. Are they worthwhile or something we'd consider a standard in the future?
What's the major advantage?
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Rick 9:37AM (10/09/2006)
As they stated in the article, it does faster-than-human shifting, and helpes improve gas mileage by not using a wasteful torque converter and shaving the time the engine spins without powering the vehicle. They're complicated as hell, so I feel that in the near future the current automatic transmission will be phased out for DSGs and be sold the most, while the conventional manual will still be built in second place, and the love-it-or-hate-it CVTs, if they still exist, will keep squeeking by in a low third place.
I like the concept and execution of the DSG, and it shows how simple tinkering with a commonly technologically ignored component can cause a vast improvement that carries over across all companies. Too bad my stubborn self still needs a clutch pedal.
Edit: Amazingly, Porsche has touted the benefits of a DSG bu publicly stating that the DSG equipped 911 is actually faster than the manual 911!
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Seabass 9:44AM (10/09/2006)
I have test driven one of the VW cars (either the Jetta or Passat; can't remember) with a DSG and I have to say I am very impressed. It's odd to see and fel the vehicle change gears in an instant. It's almost scary. But like the article stated, DSGs are amazing wonders and I hope that DCX does carry them on FWD vehicles.
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RickDom 9:59AM (10/09/2006)
DSG transmissions are far less complicated than automatics. They have no planitary gear sets and they only have two clutch packs, but that clutch pack is the most complicated single part of the transmission. A six speed auto typically has 4 clutch packs plus a torque converter. The other difficult part of a DSG is dual shafts, where one has to go through the other and, of course, the control computer.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-clutch-transmission.htm
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Michael Karesh 10:05AM (10/09/2006)
The basic idea is you essentially have two manual transmissions, one of which handles odd-numbered gears and the other handles the evens. Each has its own automated clutch. The trick is to engage one clutch and disengage the other at the same instant. This permits ultra-quick, ultra-smooth shifts. Single-clutch automated manuals are much rougher.
I don't know how the system manages low-speed creeping, which is where the torque converter has been most necessary in the past.
I conducted some polls over at VW vortex a few months back, to figure out if these things are really winning over die-hand stick shift enthusiasts. And they are.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2523313
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AMcA 10:36AM (10/09/2006)
D'ya spose that a DSG is easily expandable, too?
I think of the cost of the 6-speed torque converter box that was so great GM needed Ford to cooperate on it.
Can a DSG hook up another gear without a massive redesign?
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Kim Junk Ill 10:48AM (10/09/2006)
But American cars still junk with DSG.
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That One Person 12:39PM (10/09/2006)
Thats cool. DSGs are pretty slick transmissions.
But now all Chrysler has to do is develope a nice looking FWD car.
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MikeW 2:22PM (10/09/2006)
DCT (double clutch transmissions) are neat.
But they need 7 forward gears. The internal layout the current VW DSG is a gludge, what a terrible mess. Reverse and 1st are on the same shaft, stupid.
They don't shift gears, they transition gears. There is still a time when the engine is cut, that is the ridiculously short time of single digit milliseconds quoted.
Creep is managed by slipping the clutch, and amazingly park has a parking pawl.
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Hunh!?!?! 3:54PM (10/09/2006)
I read that there's a version that can be set in Automatic, or shift it yourself?
Is this true?
It had better be, since most vehicles sold are automatics( I do like the Shiftronic, in Hyundai Sonata V6, or the Optima I-4 and V6... 5 speed automatic, you can shift yourself. It is no DSG, but beats a regular automatic. Kind of reminds me somewhat of a motorcycle shifter?).
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Ryan 4:33PM (10/09/2006)
"Chrysler developing dual-clutch tranny for FWD vehicles"
-That's scary.
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DAN SMITH 3:27AM (10/10/2006)
TRICKLE DOWN:
IT WASN'T ALL THAT LONG AGO WHEN ONLY F1 DRIVERS HAD ACCESS TO CARS EQUIPED WITH SEQUENTIAL GEARBOXES WITH PADDLE SHIFTERS. THEN THE TECHNOLOGY SPREAD INTO PRESTIGE MAKES LIKE FERRARI, LAMBORGHINI, ASTON MARTIN, MASERATI, CERTAIN AMG MERCEDES MODELS, BMWS..., BUT MUCH LIKE FUEL INJECTION, DISK BRAKES, ABS, RADIAL TIRES AND SYNCHRONIZED GEARBOXES BEFORE THEM, THE SEQUENCIAL GEARBOXES WILL SOON BECOME COMMONPLACE. THIS "NOVEL" TECHNOLOGY STILL RETAINS SOME CACHET, AND DESIGN ENGINEERS AT NEARLY EVERY LEVEL SEEM TO HAVE GOTTEN A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF IT VERY QUICKLY. AND I THINK THAT IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT YOU'LL FIND IT IN WIDESPREAD USE AMONG LOWER SCALE MANUFACTURERS BY EARLY 2007. EVERY SINGLE MANUFACTURER IS LOOKING FOR SOME KIND OF EDGE IN THE MARKETPLACE. FOR A WHILE, THAT EDGE WAS HYBRID TECHNOLOGY. BUT WITH OIL SUPPLIES NOW BEING INCREASINGLY PLENTIFUL AND STARTLINGLY INEXPENSIVE, HYBRIDS ARE SWIFTLY BECOMING LESS IMPORTANT. IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE SEQUENTIAL GEARBOXES ARE NOW POISED TO BECOME "THE NEXT BIG THING." I'M DAN SMITH
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dakota 1:30AM (10/10/2006)
"-That's scary."
I'd like to know how it's scary?
This has been in long development by Chrysler, since around 98 or so. The first test of it, was very public ME-Four-Twelve anyone?
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MikeW 8:10PM (10/11/2006)
Then I guess you missed Paul Frere's November 1996 Road and Track editorial 'Three cheers-and six gears-for BMW's sequential gearbox'
or Car and Driver's November 1997 'Make Mine Manumatic' article
and didn't own a 1991 Porsche with TipTronic.
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wwest 8:04PM (8/29/2007)
But won't these stick shift transaxles in FWD vehicles result in a HIGH level of accidents due to loss of control from inadvertent engine compression braking? With the majority of todays public not being aware of the hazards of downshifting a FWD vehicle I just don't see it happening.
The entire industry seems to be currently going through an evolutionary transaxle design phase in an effort to alleviate this serious safety problem with automatic transaxles in FWD and F/AWD vehicles.
Just google for:
Toyota & hesitation
So absent a training program, a really serious training program set up by the industry to make the public more aware of the inate hazards of FWD I suspect we will not see a reversal of the current trend to NOT put stick shift transaxles in FWD or F/AWD vehicles.
Enough people have been killed or injuried already as a result of the greed of the industry.
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