Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Green, Tech
EEStor ceramic electric motor
Alternative-fuel engines of different sorts all suffer from one major drawback or another: poor range, hard-to-find filling stations, high cost, poor performance. EEStore is out to change all that with a revolutionary new kind of "battery". We put "battery" in quotation marks because the unit doesn't store power in a chemical capsule like a conventional battery, but instead uses some kind of glass- and aluminum-coated ceramics. The inventors are understandably tight-lipped on the way their creation works, but they're adamant it could completely replace the internal combustion engine.
Feel Good Cars, the Toronto company responsible for the ZENN, wants to get the unit on the road by 2008. The most significant benefit would be its efficiency: a car powered by the EEStor unit could run on the equivalent of 45 cents per gallon, driving 500 miles on $9 worth of electricity after just five minutes to charge.
We could tell you this invention could be the fix for our addiction to foreign oil, but that's scary talk for gear-heads. So we'll tell you about the performance instead. The company's CEO insists that "a four-passenger sedan will drive like a Ferrari". That's a tall order, but if he's right, the prancing horse could find itself grazing on greener pastures.
(Thanks to Robert for the tip!)
[Source: CNN]
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Apeweek 12:31AM (9/23/2006)
Here's some more reading on EESTOR.
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html
http://tyler.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/3/29/1849708.html
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1141599010468&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist971715454851
They are supercapacitors, operating at about 3500 volts. At that voltage it would take about 150-200 amps to charge them in a few minutes. This is doable with 2/0 wiring, common in electric vehicles.
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Vogon 1:26AM (9/23/2006)
Alternatively, you can feed it banana peels.
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Anon Y. Mous 4:52AM (9/23/2006)
WHF?
900 cents for 500 miles = 1.8 cents per mile.
45 cents divide by 1.8 cents = 25 miles per gallon of something.
500 miles at 25 miles per gallon = 20 gallons of "fuel" consumption during the duration of the trip.
5 minutes to charge probably meant 5 minutes to change the "fuel" ... i.e. spent fuel out, fresh fuel in ...
I suspect this is some sort of stored fuel on ceramic ... perhaps hydrogen ... which releases and is consumed and uses electricity "offline" to recycle itself.
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J. P. Morgan 10:39AM (9/23/2006)
1. EEStore is a real company doing real development of an ultra capacitor. The venture capitalist backing EEStore is the same guy who bet on either EBay or Google, can't remember which. EEStore is not the only company developing ultracapacitors. EEStore is not hyping their technology, in fact they are so low key as to be almost invisible. Whether or not they succeed in their venture is another matter--supposedly testing by an independent source (Univ of Texas or the U.S. Army) is either underway or will begin shortly.
2. There is a lot of research underway using nano-technology to increase surface area of capacitors and batteries. It is quite promising.
3. Feel Good Cars has obtained the exclusive rights to EEStore's technology in the under 40 mph category.
4. Feel Good Car's auto is ugly because it is made by a French company.
Prediction: There will be major breakthrus in the area of energy storage in the next couple years, most likely as a result of nano technology. EEStore just may be one of them. Put it on a Google watch and follow developments.
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Jim Fieser 1:26AM (9/24/2006)
A charging station would no doubt also utilize ultra capacitor technology so that it is charging the "pump" between cars with regular line voltage at a safe amperage. Multiple capacitors per "pump island" could be used for peak filling periods.
Part of their efficiency gain has to come from turning braking power back into stored electricity.
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Brian Cole 5:34PM (9/24/2006)
Probably an "aluminum battery" of some sort. Looks like bunkum to me.
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Luc 10:22AM (9/26/2006)
Well, this might be a good one.
I will not comment on some power and rate of power calculations made by a few
but I think some people need to return to high school an master the basic physic principles.
I will retain though that it is possible that capacitor technology as reached maturity for longer lasting
energy storage. (We do not store power, but electrons which can create a tension or voltage source,
you store electron like Hydro-Quebec stores water in a reservoir).
But, they will build an electrical car out of an existing European micro-car which is still insufficient for a family.
It is not even good enough to beat the electrical Smart, made in the UK.
http://www.clean-auto.com/article.php3?id_article=3880
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/09/hybrid_technolo_1.php
It's a pity that they did not try to sell the motor and battery technology developped 10 years ago by Hydro-Quebec at their
research center IREQ near Montreal. They stripped out a Dodge Intrepid of all its fossil fuel and dinosaure technology stuff
and replaced all by a new battery technology and new motor tech as well. One motor per axle so the car have full ESP and ABS.
The car was reaching 100 km/h in less than 10 seconds and could run for more than 300 km.
This technology is available on SVE Cleanova, made in France on a very practical Renault Kangoo body.
http://www.cleanova.com/public/sve/
Can North America leave the stone age of automobile and start doing one good green car ?
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Ron H. 4:50PM (9/27/2006)
Read the patent. It is a ultracapacitor. It is stated to hold 31 farads, 52,000 w-hr, at 3500 volts. It's about 2340 units in parallel, each with 1000 layers with their magic dust as the dielectric.The numbers on their patent are correct as stated. The magic dust has a HUGE dielctric constant of 33,500. Air is zero. It also has a HUGE dielectric brakedown number (high prevents meltdowns). It also has a HUGE permittivity number, which means the magic dust can store MUCH more charge then others at a given voltage or the same electric field. This substance has ALL THREE PROPERTIES. This plus some of their fabrication techniques make it VERY INTERESTING. I am a BIG believer. I hope I am right. I invested in both Feel Good Cars and gave VC to EEStor,Inc. in Texas. 2 years worth of my ER MD salary. I hit it HUGE in the last few years with this same reasoning pattern: Apple(500% in 18-20 months), AOB(500% in 6 months), Toll Brothers(80%), and gold (40%). IF it works, EEstor will make BILLIONS, and FGC's will sell it's worldwide rights to EEStor's ultracapacitor technology for use in golf carts and vehicles under 122kg and 100hp.
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Ron H. 4:56PM (9/27/2006)
Read the patent. It is a ultracapacitor. It is stated to hold 31 farads, 52,000 w-hr, at 3500 volts. It's about 2340 units in parallel, each with 1000 layers with their magic dust as the dielectric.The numbers on their patent are correct as stated. The magic dust has a HUGE dielctric constant of 33,500. Air is zero. It also has a HUGE dielectric brakedown number (high prevents meltdowns). It also has a HUGE permittivity number, which means the magic dust can store MUCH more charge then others at a given voltage or the same electric field. This substance has ALL THREE PROPERTIES. This plus some of their fabrication techniques make it VERY INTERESTING. I am a BIG believer. I hope I am right. I invested in both Feel Good Cars and gave VC to EEStor,Inc. in Texas. 2 years worth of my ER MD salary. I hit it HUGE in the last few years with this same reasoning pattern: Apple(500% in 18-20 months), AOB(500% in 6 months), Toll Brothers(80%), and gold (40%). IF it works, EEstor will make BILLIONS, and FGC's will sell it's worldwide rights to EEStor's ultracapacitor technology for use in golf carts and vehicles under 122kg and 100hp.
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Kyle 6:42AM (9/28/2006)
To Ron H:
I've read the Eestor patent and am very interested in their technology, although I heard it's slipped behind schedule by a year.
according to this informative thread: http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html
I'd love to hear any other info you have about Eestor, is it too late to invest? I can be reached at kyle at wendlink.com , cheers.
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EV-EE 11:55AM (10/02/2006)
"... as you drive it slowly agitates the surface to create mini lightning."
go play with your toys sonny.
"...big wind up car with big ALUMINUM spring"
has anyone ever seen a spring made of aluminum?!!! Please!!
"... it's a flux capacitor... it uses something like 1.21 Gigawats of power to get going"
yeah right... are you having a "back to the future" deja-vu?
Not a single calculation or formulae are right on this blog. The only real contributions here have been made by Gary Hyslop (10) and BJ(14). The first one refers to Ultracapacitors, which is a proven technology but has a known limitation in voltage (because of insulation problems due to the minimal distance between charges, in tho orders of 10 Angstroms). Now if what this company has done is to overcome this problem (and I have heard that this is actually the case), then they are serious. Nevertheless, it is easy saying so, but they still have to prove it.
On the other hand, if all this is true, then there would be no problem with the power to charge these devices. The actual ENERGY number is 52kWh, if you want to fully charge it in 5 minutes you'll need to deliver 624kW of POWER, which is not trivial but absolutely possible. Regarding this amount of power, there are some issues about the power grid, but all of them are absolutely manageable.
Now Kiddies, I know I'm being a smart ass, and here's why: I know nothing about Football, therefore I don't go around talking BS about the sport of which my ignorance is absolute. If I'm interested in finding out something about the subject I have absolutely no clue about, I'll go to the expert and ask him (or her) for advice, then I might form my own opinion and offer it.
So I recommend you that the next time you want to invest in a business or industry (or merely chat about it) you inform yourselves, do your homework, consult books, ask REAL engineers, not just quote some other BS you read on a lousy blog like this one.
Truly yours, EV
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Ben 7:02PM (10/11/2006)
I don't know if this particular idea will work or not but I would bet my two cents that sooner or later some energy storage device will. It's all about cost and with the current cost of fossil fuels people want something cheaper and ethanol certainly won't do the job (stupid bush) - you can't run a country on corn. The only thing that seems right is some kind of improved battery technology, or at least that's where my money would be if I had any.
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Glenn 6:02PM (10/17/2006)
I have an EV I built and would love to test out some new battery technology. That is how I found this blog. Current technology is too heavy. I say good luck to them, and send me some samples :)
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D Gilmour, PHD (Ento) 11:28PM (12/31/2006)
There are many break-throughs in capacitor/battery technology occuring at this time. Some are Paradigm shifting events. Some are bs. But the science is almost transparent, or should be, for most of us, and I for one, am very excited by the probabilities, not possibilities. These are exciting times! DG
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Caroll H. 10:46AM (2/03/2007)
If this technology does work, ie. hold 52 KWh in one package this will make EV's much more useful. A note on the charge times, I think a more practical charge would be 2 100 amp conductors at 220 V. It would charge in the time it takes to eat lunch and any place with 220 AC could put in charging stations. When traveling you pull into Perkins and plug in. I just hope an oil company doesn't go in a buy the technology like they did the NiMH battery.
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John 8:47PM (2/27/2007)
I am somewhat of an expert in this area, having worked in the field for 30 years, and based on their patents, there are eight or more science-based reasons why this will not work. And they are all stand-alone. While its conceivable that someone could make a breakthrough, I give odds that someone not in the field probablly did not make eight of them simultaneously.
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Technopete 5:44PM (4/30/2007)
Technopete says:-
A quick measurement and calculation shows that a second Eestor unit charged slowly in the home would work best for recharging an Eestor unit in Tesla Roadster or Feel Good Cars Zenn electric cars. A mains extension cable wire resistance is 0.2 ohms for 5 metres, or 0.04 ohms per metre. Lets say that the charging cable wire for a Zenn would be 10 times the thickness or 0.004 ohms per metre. There are two wires in the charging cable.
To transfer this charge to a 10kwH Eestor unit for a Zenn in 5 minutes at 3,000 volts would take 120,000 watts. At 3,000 volts this is 40 amps. The voltage drop on the cable would be 40 amps x 0.004 ohms = 0.16 volts per metre, and the power lost in each cable wire would be 0.16v x 40 amps = 6.4 watts per metre, but we have to multiply this by two because we have two wires in the cable (same as a mains cord). So the total cable power loss is around 13 watts per metre or around 0.01% per metre (or one ten thousandth) of the energy being transferred.
For a 50 KWHour unit needed by the Tesla Roadster to charge in 10 minutes then the maths are similar. Assuming a cable twice as thick (twenty times the thickness of a mains cord).
Charging rate - 300,000 watts;
current - 100 amps;
cable ohms / metre = 0.002;
cable voltage drop = 0.2 volts / metre (one wire);
cable power lost = 40 watts per metre (both wires)
OK so you can feel it gets warm, but this is only twice the heat generated from your brain (20 watts)!
The 10 KWH charging cable will probably weigh rather less than those used on gas pumps right now, though come to think of it the petrol pump cables are a bit on the heavy side!! The 50 KWH cable might be a similar weight to the gas pump cable.
What about the risk of electrocution from having such a high voltage around? Well we still have higher voltages than this powering our old CRT TV's and PC screens. I haven't heard of any accidental deaths from TV's and CRT's. Obviously the insulation around a high-voltage charging cable must be very good and you will need some sort of super fast RCD (residual current detection) device to ensure that any current leakage (e.g. to a person) shuts off the charging before the leakage current gets high enough to kill anyone.
The voltage on an Eestor capacitor would be proportional to the charge stored. During charging, the house ultracapacitor voltage decreases over time and the car ultracapacitor voltage increases as electrical energy is transferred between the two. So equipment at each end of the cable is required to keep the cable voltage and current constant.
So recharging is not a real issue, particularly once the infrastructure to recharge away from home is set up.
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SZ 9:05AM (5/01/2007)
Hi all,
Even if the device is such a device so stated,it stores electrical energy that has been input equally efficiently lets say.(A near ideal e.storage device)
Before we all get carried away lets all remember we are storing energy only.Even if the device is as stated we are storing and releasing energy only.
If I put such a device in 100 million cars tomorrow,given the electrical energy required,how many coal fired filthy power stations will be needed ?
Or how long before we build the necessary renewable energy stations ?
This is all extra electrical energy generation
for transport !
You won't be allowed to BUY the cars.
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Technopete 5:08AM (8/12/2007)
Yes, you are right, it will require electricity to be generated, and some of it will come from coal-fire power stations. But you also have to bear in mind:-
a) There is much less pollution from a properly equipped coal fired power station than a gas-driven car because you can fit scrubbers etc. for CO and SO2 emissions
b) Electric vehicles are inherently about twice as efficient as gas-driven cars. If you were burning oil in the power station then you would only have to burn around half as much as you have to put into a refinery to drive the car a given number of miles.
c) A big proportion of the electricity generation most places (except possible China) does not use coal, e.g. uses hydro, wind, natural gas so the CO2 emissions from power generation are around 50% what they would be if they all used coal.
d) Technologies are available for sequestering CO2 from power stations (though I'm not entirely convinced these are a real long-term solution).
So the net of it all is that
1) An electric car uses about 50% of the raw energy dug out of the ground that a gas-fuelled car does (assuming both are fired from the same fuel).
2) When you take the proportion of cleaner electricity generation into account, then an electric car is responsible for only about 25% of the CO2 emissions as a gas-fuelled car.
Give me 25% CO2 emissions over 100% CO2 emissions every day - this is a really significant improvement. So we might be able to afford to use some of the oil saved to continue flying around the world.
Oh and forget hydrogen as it is much worse than an electric car.
DaEl 5:07PM (11/05/2007)
Why not cover your electric car top with solar thin solar cells and recharge the vehicle during daylight? Add to this the ultracapacitor and you have the most inexpensive vehicle ever.
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