DCX designing new V6 lineup
DaimlerChrysler will be investing $2 billion in a new line of modular V6 engines that will be shared by Mercedes-Benz and Chrysler Group vehicles. Set to appear by 2010, the new six-cylinders are known internally as project Phoenix. DCX will be pumping its $2 billion investment into three U.S. engine plants that will be plucked to produce the new motors. They're located in Kenosha, WI, Trenton, MI and Toledo, OH. At least one plant in Germany will also be brought online to make the engines. The new family of V6s will reduce DCX's number of six-cylinder engine families from five all the way down to one. Due to their modular nature, the engines will be able to perform in a variety of engine bays, all the way from the Chrysler Sebring to the Mercedes-Benz E-Class. [Source: Automotive News]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
mickster 9:40AM (7/24/2006)
Dr. Z is Conzolidating.
If I spent some 50 large on a E series sedan to find out that the Sebring shares its engine, I'm not so happy anymore.
From a bottom-line standpoint it makes sense; from a marketing standpoint it will be an awfully difficult line to walk...
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Drewboy 9:46AM (7/24/2006)
Just because they're a single "engine family" doesn't mean they have to share ALL the engine parts does it? I mean, they could develop a very nice, smooth engine for the MB vehicles, and purposefully mess it up for the Chysler group vehicles, right?
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RickDom 9:48AM (7/24/2006)
Looks like the whole Diamler + Chrysler thing is finally starting to actually mean something.
These Engines must have:
SOHC&DOHC
Direct Injection
VVT, possibly duel
Variable intake
MDS (Cylinder deactivation)
Turbo and/or Super Charged version
Not be called Hemi, but I think Slant Six'd be cool. (Eventhough the real slant six was in inline engine.)
The big dream would be cam-less electromagnetic valves, maybe on the high end MB engines.
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goat 10:16AM (7/24/2006)
They already have the best V6 around: OM642.
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JB 10:44AM (7/24/2006)
As soon as they put the 2.7 out to pasture the better. I've looked over the websites for engine sludge = engine failure and the 2.7 (base engine) V6 seems to be cursed with it. Not exclusive to DCX, though, as Toyota and Honda also had sludging issues, it's how the company takes care of the problem and solution.
I am sure that Germans will not be happy to think that their engine will be the same as in a minivan. As long as the engine is bulletproof, then they are OK.
The problem is, if there are recalls on that engine, dealers will be swamped with vehicles needing repairs. It has the potential to equal huge warranty costs, as so many vehicles will be affected. That's the problem with commonization, it commonizes the problems too.
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MikeW 11:10AM (7/24/2006)
Seems funny, Mercedes likes the 90 degree Vees for a nice and low hood.(and cost efficiency, made with V8 tooling)
Chrysler needs 60 degree for transverse applications.
Mercedes has direct injection for the 2.5,3.0,3.5 and they will be fine until 2010.
Chrysler will be overtaken by the Koreans in the interim.
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Joe 11:11AM (7/24/2006)
Ref#1
Why not if you buy a Lexus your buying a Honda engine. Same with many more that is just one.
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Mr. Fletcher 11:11AM (7/24/2006)
About time! Chrysler seems to have as many engine families as GM. Nothing is wrong with all DCX divisions having access to the same engine family. From a cost analysis is makes sense to consolidate. No one seems to complain about the VQ V6 family that powers evevery Nissan and Infiniti around. Nissan proved the basics of the engine are fine, but it varies in size/power depending on the specific application. I don't believe a Mercedes owner is going to care if the core of his engine is shared with a Sebring/Pacifica/300. As long as the engine works well who care?
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esoterica 11:20AM (7/24/2006)
I complain about the Nissan VQ engine: yes it's powerful and has an excellent torque curve, but it's pretty gruff and it gets remarkably bad fuel economy no matter what vehicle it's in. Hopefully DC can do better.
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Stphane Dumas 11:45AM (7/24/2006)
#6 MikeW, GM had put the old V6 3800 90 degrees in transverse applications for larger cars however.
Meanwhile as for 60 degrees V6, I wonder if it could be possible to create a 60 degrees V8?
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Fran 11:55AM (7/24/2006)
Reference #7
True the Lexus uses the parent company engine, but that is TOYOTA. Honda produces ACURA.
Rember back in the late 70s, that GM was using Pontiac V-8s in Buick.
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esoterica 12:10PM (7/24/2006)
Stéphane, the Volvo/Yamaha 4.4L V8 is a 60 degree engine -- the main reason why it's so compact.
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Fabulo 12:15PM (7/24/2006)
Stéphane, the 4.4l V8 that Ford shoehorned in the Volvo XC90 is a 60 deg V8. Originally, the engine was designed by Yamaha for use in the Taurus SHO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_V8_engine
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Allin 12:25PM (7/24/2006)
I am sure that the block and basic parts will be shared, but the higher end versions will have upgraded parts and electronics. Besides most of MB's higher end autos use V8 engines anyway.
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Stphane Dumas 1:05PM (7/24/2006)
#11,#12 thanks for the infos esoterica and Fabulo :-)
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pauln 5:54PM (7/24/2006)
So much for the old slogan "Engineered like no other car". Might as well change it to "Engineered like the Sebrings and Caravans sitting on the rental car lots".
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Smart 6:44PM (7/24/2006)
PS - Chrysler designed the all revered Mini Cooper 1.6l Engine in Auburn Hills, MI. So, Chrysler CAN build a good engine, in a global product. BMW had to contact Chrysler for its expertise in building high quality engines at a low cost. That is something Mini and BMW don't want you to know, and will never put in a PR campaign, and you won't read in in Car and Driver. A similar approach will probably be taken for the MB/ Chrysler engines. BTW - Mercedes offered is manufacturing expertise on the 1.6L as well, and they are currently built in a MB Brazil plant.
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John 7:50PM (7/24/2006)
Well, there is a huge difference between people who get a Lexus and ignore the Toyota aspect. And it's that Benz owners are predominately really arrogant and rich.
If you ever read the Benz forums, it's easy to glean how much those Benz owners hate the Chrysler aspect of things. Outside of enthusiast boards, talk to most people who do buy a CL550 and they do NOT want any bit of it to be shared with a Dodge Charger. Heck, Jaguar lost a whole bunch of potential buyers when word got out that their car was sharing a parts bin with a Mondeo. Yeah, Jag makes money now, but they're definitely not iconic any more.
MB owners tend to want their Benz to be exclusive and iconic. Not common and pragmatic.
If they share *anything* between Chrysler and Benz (at the same model year launch time), it better just be for the US-Market R and M Class cars... because crapping on the bread and butter Saloons and Roadsters in the MB portfolio will trully be a sad thing. The Crossfire being an old SLK is one thing... the Crossfire being the same as a new SLK is another.
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Poopy Head 9:40PM (7/24/2006)
It is possible to have a family of blocks that have different split angles. They could instead share the same pistons, cams, electronics, and slightly alter the crank and rods. Every application will need a different intake tract and exhaust anyways. Group efforts always have some good results.
My former dealership took a Dodge Caliber with the 1.8 I4 and 5 speed manual and loaded it with 2135 lbs worth of weights. Tire pressure was adjusted accordingly and Mobil 1 5w40 was put in the engine. We then had someone drive it to Colombus GA and back to Atlanta at freeway speeds. This required driving in 3rd gear the entire way just to keep up to speed and not getting run over. This left the engine shrieking at redline and the AC always off because it automatically cuts out when the car is floored.
The car made the round trip and never overheated or threw a warning light. Since then, the car was delivered to it's rental car buyer problem free.
The world engines are good engineering and well built*.
*Until a recall proves otherwise.
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Fran 12:20AM (7/25/2006)
Does anyone besides myself or some obscure writer realise that there is nothing new in auto enginering, just that the technology has caught up. This is not the first idea from a Chrysler company and MB have exchanged tech. Back in 1953, Bendix invented the electronic fuel injection (placed in 50 special Chrysler 300s), that ran on vacuum tubes. It was unreliable at the time and like most American companies they sold the patent to, your right, Bosch.
Then again in 1973 Bendix had 4 wheel anti-lock breaks in the Imperial, guess who they sold it to? Yep Bosh. This type of dialog could go on and on.
Suffice to say that a lot of inventions have been foregotton and found their way back.
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