Indiana turned out to be the fairest one of them all for Honda. The automaker announced that its much-anticipated plant, for which it considered numerous sites in the Midwest, will be built on a 1,700 acre site near Greensburg, Ind. to the tune of $550 million. Honda's sixth North American plant, which will have a capacity of 200,000 vehicles per year, should start production in 2008 and will employ 2,000 people initially.
[Source: Bloomberg]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
JackOfShadows 1:58PM (6/28/2006)
Again, a Japanese manufacturer builds toward the southern part of the state.
I don't think the South Bend area will ever get a Japanese business as big as Honda.
Maybe because Local 5 of the UAW, AM General plant, would want to unionize it.
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Lithous 2:21PM (6/28/2006)
"The $550 million Greensburg facility will employ at least 2,000 people when it opens in 2008"
So if they made 200K cars by 1.5 years of opening at a profit of $2K per car they would probably break even (OK a little longer since they take time to come up to speed, no wait, they are Japanese, they will produce 200K right away, so I take that back).
"The company's North American plants are running almost at full capacity on demand for Civic small cars,"
Yeah, those small Civics that are about the size of a Malibu. Yes, take 6 inches off the front and 6 off the back bumper of a Malibu, less than 1 inch off the width and 1 inch off the height and the Civic would be larger than a Malibu. It's all about America's want for small cars, yeah right.
"The U.S. market, Honda's biggest, accounts for more than half of the company's operating income."
Again, supports my theory that U.S. people are getting worse academically (i.e. their smarts are declining) and their Japanese (foreign car purchases in general) are increasing. So the "smarter" rest of the world accounts for less than half of Honda's sales. Makes perfect sense: most Americans aren't smart enough to realize their cars aren't that good.
"The projects will give Honda capacity to build and sell 4.5 million autos worldwide by 2010."
Just about the number of vehicles GM sold in America alone last year. So they aren't adding ANYTHING at all (not when U.S. companies have the ability to make enough vehicles and are laying off more than the Japanese create jobs for here). AGAIN, nothing is created, just shifted. Maybe that is what Nissan's whole "shift" ad thing was about. Shifting American jobs and industry all around.
"It has since added assembly plants in East Liberty, Ohio; Alliston, Ontario; Lincoln, Alabama; and El Salto, Mexico."
Wait a minute. I thought only the domestics went to Canada and MEXICO??? That's what I keep hearing all the time on autoblog. Domestics make their products in Canada and Mexico and the Japanese make them all here. Another myth? The problem is mathematics AGAIN. People can't comprehend that if GM made half their vehicles (that they sell in America) in Mexico they would still make more vehicles in the U.S. than Honda sells in the U.S. Again, mathematics isn't America's thing anymore though.
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Jason 2:31PM (6/28/2006)
I'm still waiting for the first post from Lithous that isn't soaked with fake intelligence. I especially liked the part where you said a Civic is the same size of a Malibu.
...
Oh wait, then you said you had to make a Malibu smaller in every dimension first THEN that would be true.
Hey, if we took a Lincoln Town Car and made it much smaller in every way, the Civic would TOTALLY be the same size as the Lincoln OMG HONDA IS EVIL!! :-O
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Scott 2:33PM (6/28/2006)
post #1,
That has to be about the worst negative spin on a company announcing a new automobile plant in the United States that I've ever read.
Honda is a smaller car company than GM. They could certainly be larger; they sell every car they make, without resorting to firesale tactics. They could divert some of that R&D money into building more plants.. but instead Honda control their growth and strive for efficiency. It keeps the brand strong and healthy for THE FUTURE - something that to GM means "end of the month".
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Vinny 2:37PM (6/28/2006)
Lithous:
What plant do you work at? Why don't YOU do the "_shift".
Your brands suck in more and more American eyes and the number is growing, unless there are many changes made. I'm sure you've read those neede changes in the comments here before. Will those happen? Doubtful. The weight of fat union obligations keeps them from being competitive. But at least the unions make my pay higher otherwise we'd all be on minnumum wage, right?
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scooter 2:37PM (6/28/2006)
Lithous,
Help me understand. Honda is evil for producing products that are highly competitive and/or Americans are "dumb" for buying them. I just don't get where the anger comes from.
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Lithous 2:40PM (6/28/2006)
I really need to learn to stop hating Honda and Toyota. I need to learn that people buy them for a reason - because they are good, reliable cars. I need to get a life. Help me, please.
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PJ 2:42PM (6/28/2006)
The desire is not so much for smaller cars as for *more economical* cars. The EPA figures for a 3.5-liter Malibu: 22/32 MPG. The same figures for a Civic EX: 30/40 MPG.
Also interesting that you slam Honda for adding plants in Canada and Mexico, when the article also says that they're adding THREE plants in the United States. Is it somehow worse for Honda to move some of its labor north and south of the border than it is for domestic brands to do the same thing?
Somehow, I don't think the proliferation of Honda (and Toyota, and other "import" brands') vehicles represents a lack of intelligence on the part of the American public. The fact is, these brands had to overcome a crippling negative association for decades precisely because people disliked them for being outsiders. Americans like American cars, so the odds were stacked against manufacturers like Honda and Toyota. Why are they doing so well today? Because they build a better product (in most market segments).
Just purely out of curiosity--no flaming here--I'd really like to know what it is about Honda and Toyota products that turn you off to them so much. Which ones have you driven? In which respects are they inferior to competing domestic models? I've just never really seen your reasoning.
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Lithous 3:00PM (6/28/2006)
"Oh wait, then you said you had to make a Malibu smaller in every dimension first THEN that would be true."
I stated ABOUT the same. Reading comprehension is not your forte.
"Hey, if we took a Lincoln Town Car and made it much smaller in every way"
Yeah, but only 1 inch in two of three dimensions? NOT.
"they sell every car they make, without resorting to firesale tactics."
Yes, my point is this is only a fact because of perception and people who have no clue of the truth (truth about reliability, jobs creation, assembly location, etc.). Toyota knows all about the perception of job creation and assembly location, their commercials seem to remind us all constantly.
"What plant do you work at? Why don't YOU do the "_shift"."
I've never worked in a plant in my life nor for a car company.
"Your brands suck in more and more American eyes and the number is growing,"
Yup, fail your math test and go buy a Honda. The American way.
"Help me understand. Honda is evil for producing products that are highly competitive and/or Americans are "dumb" for buying them. I just don't get where the anger comes from."
Of course you don't get it. Test scores prove it. They aren't evil they just aren't the little needed (oh we need them they are great, I'll cry everyday if I had to drive an American car) angels most of you think.
"The desire is not so much for smaller cars as for *more economical* cars."
Then they (the article and everyone else) should say that then. But the problem is that GM's large SUVs are VERY economical for what they are (go look are Toyota and other's SUVs). So it is much better to just state things like "smaller". That way, GM could never claim, victory with their large SUVs when in actuality it they are great for what they are (large vehicles for large families or businesses).
"Also interesting that you slam Honda for adding plants in Canada and Mexico, when the article also says that they're adding THREE plants in the United States. Is it somehow worse for Honda to move some of its labor north and south of the border than it is for domestic brands to do the same thing?"
Ahhhh. You guys have no clue. My simple statement was sarcastic about how if GM and Ford make any cars outside of America then they all are (according to some in their statements). And if the Japanese make any here they all are made here. Go look around autoblog for 2 minutes and see what I am stating. I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous that is.
"The fact is, these brands had to overcome a crippling negative association for decades precisely because people disliked them for being outsiders. Americans like American cars, so the odds were stacked against manufacturers like Honda and Toyota."
Yeah, and the money from their gov't and the U.S. states didn't hurt and oh, yeah, they came over here without unions which the Big 2 can't get rid of and so it isn't all greatness on the Japanese companies part it is more that there is so much stacked up against GM and Ford. Oh, yeah, which Japanese company has had a book published in America called "Unsafe at any Speed"? Yeah, it's been all stacked against THEM.
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Will Wheeler 4:13PM (6/28/2006)
#1, Can you tell me in one or two sentences what the hell you are talking about?
If you are against Japanese cars, which I think you are, I would like to state why in a clear and comprehensible sentence. Are you really trying to say that a Japanese car is not as good as an American car?
Finally, most of the Japanese manufacturers try to source and produce as much of their cars in the market it is to be sold in. Last time I checked Ford and GM were closing plants, and looking to source more components from Mexico, and other third world nations.
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Lithous 4:26PM (6/28/2006)
"Also interesting that you slam Honda for adding plants in Canada and Mexico, when the article also says that they're adding THREE plants in the United States."
No, again, you see more FOR Honda than reality. They added since 1982 3 more U.S. plants. They are not adding 3 more.
"Just purely out of curiosity--no flaming here--I'd really like to know what it is about Honda and Toyota products that turn you off to them so much."
Economics. Name one super / emerging super economy that hasn't gotten that way through manufacturing. This shows how vital manufacturing is to an economy. Next, for those countries that manufacture but allow foreign companies to control it (which is the direction we are headed) show me one super economy.
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s 4:52PM (6/28/2006)
Wooo! did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?
Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch
Sounds like someone's wife who just actually trying vent emotion instead of logic.
Someone get that bitch some Midol, tampax, box of chocolates and a new attitude.
Geez!
GO HONDA!!!
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iQuack 4:59PM (6/28/2006)
Auto manufacturing is alive and well in the U.S.
Good that Americans will be building more Hondas in Indiana--Hondas are great cars and are now as American as apple pie (with a bit of sushi on the side, perhaps).
So, who loses? GM and Ford managements lose and so do GM and Ford shareholders. And why do they lose? Because the UAW has a choke-hold on GM and Ford.
Dump the UAW contracts that were made 20 years ago with UAW guns held to the heads of domestic car managements and maybe the playing field will be level.
Unions are the bad guys here. Union workers think they work for their unions instead of the companies that pay them. I'd rather have my car made by a happy, Honda worker than some malcontent Joe Lunch-bucket union loser who slops cars together according to featherbedding union rules.
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PJ 5:01PM (6/28/2006)
Lithous - yeah, I goofed on the "adding three plants." I meant to say that they had add*ed* three plants, past tense.
I can certainly understand your sentiment on the last point about Japanese manufacturers threatening the future of American automakers. I just think people would take your opinion more seriously if you came out and said, "I don't like Japanese cars because they're Japanese, and that takes business away from automakers that originated in the States." The reason so many commenters jump down your throat--myself included--is that your comments tend to place the blame on the Japanese vehicles themselves, as if they're actually inferior products, or on the people who buy them, as if they're actually getting a poorer car for their money.
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PJ 5:08PM (6/28/2006)
iQuack beat me to the point I wanted to add. I think we can agree that the "bad guys" aren't the Japanese manufacturers for building cars people want to buy--and having Americans build them, and buy shares in them. The bad guys are the UAW and the complacent leadership decisions made by past (and, to a lesser extent, recent) Big Three management.
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SOhp101 5:09PM (6/28/2006)
I don't see why everyone's trying to argue against a troll. It's easy to see that all his arguments sound like a seventh grader came up with them.
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Lithous 5:15PM (6/28/2006)
"So, who loses?"
Um, when GM and Ford abandon all U.S. production (because of bankruptcy) and have all their vehicles imported from China (you know, ala every Apple iPod ever made) and there is no union to HOLD the Japanese here and like Sony and Toshiba, etc. which make DVD players, etc. in China, so will Toyota and Honda. Tell me you don't think that is a huge possible senario?
"I just think people would take your opinion more seriously if you came out and said,..."
It's not a popularity contest so take me seriously or not but the writing is on the wall as to what is going to happen, it's "when" not "if".
Go look at the post where the UN wants to take your car from you now. Globalization is so great for America. [/sarcasm]
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Charles S 5:23PM (6/28/2006)
"...show me one super economy."
So I guess you'd wish that we be more like China? No, you don't have to answer that. If you want to be anti-globalization, I understand that. However, I'm not sure how you can achieve your "goals" by bashing Honda, just because you THINK Americans are fooled by fault perceptions.
Let's get it straight here: *IF* Americans are fooled by false advertisements, the foreign automakers are NOT alone on this. The very first thing you can compare among the companies are the advertisement budget. GM spends much more than Honda in promoting its cars. I see GM waving the patriotic flag all over the place in its advertisements, and not once have I seen Honda selling TV ads telling people that their cars are providing jobs for Americans. The Civic doesn't advertise itself as a competitor for Malibu. None of the "perceptions" about Honda that you make comes from Honda itself. People do like Honda because they either have own a Honda, or know others who have been very happy about their Honda.
Second, if you want to make it sounds like Americans are making it easy for foreign corporations, don't go blaming the US Citizens, but the American Corporations themselves. US companies have many times successfully lobby out government to put numerous restrictions against foreign competition. GM has openly fought against CAFE standards, thus not making any fuel -efficient cars, and now losing the market left and right. US auto parts suppliers do NOT like domestic companies, and openly prefer doing business with the Japanese companies. All these are examples of poor management and lack of creativity by protectionism.
Do not worry, Lithous. You are preaching a self-fulfilling prophecy. Since you have predicted that US will be in the decline, the death of GM and all manufacturing will probably kill our economy, further devaluation our currency, and soon, no American will be able to afford anything, including buying foreign products.
Actually, before we even get to that point, politicians who will run on the desperate votes, will start practicing an isolationist policy, which again, is your wish for our nation.
I have no doubt that you will dance your I-told-you-so dance when we have an economic breakdown in the near future. However, it is not because we do not manufacture products ourselves (USSR was an isolationist, manufacturing economy, and it still collapsed), I believe that we are heading toward an economic disaster simply because we have too much debt, inflationary pressures from oil, and the uncontrol spending in Iraq.
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Ritam 5:27PM (6/28/2006)
Ford is getting enough help as it is from the government, what with every police car in the country being a Crown Vic. Imagine if all the police cars were Infinite G35's! (That would be pretty sweet lol :)
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Lithous 5:28PM (6/28/2006)
" I don't see why everyone's trying to argue against a troll. It's easy to see that all his arguments sound like a seventh grader came up with them."
PLEASE. Start discounting things. Or take the easy way out. Let me try it (just to show you how easy it is): The world is flat!. Call me a seventh grader but give some sort of backup reasoning. Of course some of my comments are sarcastic. Because that is what import fanboys have built their life on. Statements like, "ALL American cars suck". Hmm, all of them? "Japanese cars are great". All of them? Is that true? A little sarcasm back shouldn't hurt anyone.
So go ahead, you did say "all" of my statements. Show me how each one is what a seventh grader would state. Google probably has many writings from seventh graders so it shouldn't be difficult.
Granted I am typing fast to keep up and can't do as well as I would like with my writings but then again my proof reader is busy right now. Why do book writers have proof readers? Hmmm. You mean G. Gordon Liddy who loves to talk about people's grammar and spelling needs a proof reader? Say it isn't so?
Let me see you comment to what 7 people said within 5 minutes and have perfect grammar and spelling.
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