Minivan sales slow, especially those of Ford and GM
General Motors and Ford Motor Company minivan sales are being hit hard. The two automakers, in addition to others, are being faced with declining sales (to the tune of 9.6 percent so far this year) in the segment long preferred by soccer moms who didn't hop on the SUV bandwagon. Taking the place of minivans are cars, which are more fuel-efficient, and crossovers, which boast SUV-like styling with the handling and fuel efficiency closer to that of a car than an SUV.
Things aren't so terribly bad for the imports, but GM and Ford are suffering heavily. Down 35.8 percent and 30.3 percent respectively in the minivan segment, GM and Ford are hoping their crossovers can woo former minivan and SUV owners alike.
[Source: The Detroit Free Press]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Source1 4:06PM (6/27/2006)
I'd like to know just how many vans Ford and GM are losing to Kia and Hyundai
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Steve 4:08PM (6/27/2006)
Hmmmmmm.......could the reason for the declining sales be because all of Ford and GM's minivans royally suck?
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Jason 4:09PM (6/27/2006)
My first thought was "If I wanted a really nice minivan, I'd get a Honda Odyssey, and if I wanted a good but affordable minivan, I'd get a Hyundai Entourage."
I can't really imagine wanting one from the big 2.5
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Mark 4:11PM (6/27/2006)
The article is pretty inaccurate. It makes it seem like the minivan market is heading for collapse when that is the farthest thing from the truth. Toyota, Honda, and Kia are enjoying record healthy minivan sales. Chrysler sales are down, but the model is also being replaced in a less than a year. The Chrysler vans are the oldest on the market. The minivan market isn't going to explode, but it is unfair to say it is slow. It is steady. And yes, I realize overall segment sales are down 9.6%, but you can blame that on two things:
1) Chrysler/Dodge/Volksagen's new trio coming out next year is making the Caravan/T&C a lame duck.
2) Ford/GM don't care about the minivan market.
It is pretty sad that Ford and GM want to blame their sagging minivan sales on the market when the truth could not be farther from it. If it was the market, why are import minivans selling like hotcakes, especially the new Sedona? The problem is that Ford's Freestar basicly looks like the same Windstar introduced in 1995. And GM was stupid by thinking that marketing vans as "Sport Vans" with ugly SUV front-ends would make them winners.
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Bob 4:47PM (6/27/2006)
As the lesee of a Chevy Venture (blushes embarrassed), I can understand why their sales are down. Styling is alright (hey it's a minivan), but it is loud, a lot of wind and road noise, there are rattles, it handles like a boat and only gets about 18 mpg. That said, I haven't had anything mechanically go wrong (~49,000 miles), but it lacks refinement.
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Aki 4:47PM (6/27/2006)
The fact is, GM and Ford minivans look and seem outdated. Kind of like how the Taurus sold lot hotcakes in the late 80s, but then languished because Ford went on autopilot. It seems they went the same route with minivans--they sold well, then Ford went on autopilot and watched sales decline while Toyota Honda and Kia picked up the pace.
While it's true that the minivan segment is slowing down, it doesn't take into account that the decline for GM/Ford is substantially higher than 9%. It shows consumers are again moving to imports.
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Bill 4:54PM (6/27/2006)
Since GM and Ford invest nothing into there minivans of course there sales are going to go down. Chrysler/Honda and now Kia have put together some very good Minivans. If GM and Ford don't want to do it right then don't bother offering a minivan. Those who want one will find one.
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Lithous 5:00PM (6/27/2006)
Yes, even with transmission manufacturer extended warranties (as opposed to the supposed Japanese way of fixing the problem instead of letting it break down) and ignition problems, the Odyssey is selling well.
I wonder if CR reads such things about transmission and ignition problems and changes their buy rating on a used Odyssey. Naw, it's Japanese, why do that.
BTW, 2.5 would be the case if the merger was actually of equals as it was billed (i.e. 0.5 U.S and 0.5 German) but we were already told by the horses mouth (DCX execs) that it was not a merger of equals. One only has to look at this simple math problem to see why America can't pass simple tests (3 - 1 = 2 not 2.5). Most of you get on GM and Ford for flaws but show 1) you have no listening comprehension whatsoever and/or 2) can't do math. Next time you think Ford and GM don't listen to their customers think how HARD it is for the average American to understand the simple concept of there are not 3 or even 2.5 big American auto companies left.
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JZeke 5:00PM (6/27/2006)
If Ford put the level of creative thinking and engineering cleverness it put into the GT program then it could make any product a standout. The same goes for GM and the Z06 development team.
Its amazing these companies get so mired in beaurcracies that they wont let their designers and engineers go do their jobs and come up with some really cool and innovative product. Honda's minivan succeeds because its coporate culture sponsors innovation, and refines well thought-out ideas.
Then again, Ford and GM both threw out the minivan idea way back in the 60's, and the 70's... and the 80's...
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Michael Karesh 5:14PM (6/27/2006)
The most popular price comparison on my site, by a wide margin, is Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna.
Chrysler minivans and the Ford Freestyle are also heavily researched.
People just don't care about the GM and Ford vans because they're not competitive.
The list of the most popular comparisons:
http://www.truedelta.com/popular.php
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Steve 5:26PM (6/27/2006)
I'm with Michael on this one. Honda and Toyota make swell, though expensive minivans. Ford and GM dropped the ball in this market, and field uncompetitive entries. Plenty of consumers, right or wrong, still don't trust the Korean products, while Nissan and Mazda are niche at best. The DCX vans, though getting long in the tooth, offer the best combination of competitive design and features for a family friendly price.
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Yaroukh 5:31PM (6/27/2006)
I'd like to ask Mr. Bill Ford Jr.
How about bringing S-Max and/or Galaxy from Europe into US?
Reviews of these two are VERY VERY positive here in Europe. (And I've heard that especially for S-Max photos don't do a justice to the vehicle.)
I'm Ford fan and I feel desperate about tha weak responses from Ford to things happening in US market.
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Stphane Dumas 5:44PM (6/27/2006)
Interesting idea you suggested Yaroukh
Another thing to bring from Europe is what they call in France, the "ludospace" http://www.ludospace.com like the Citroen Berlingo, Opel/Vauxhall Combo and Renault Kangoo. The Chevy HHR might be considered de facto as a ludospace.
Then a sector where Ford had a big presence in the past is the...station-wagon! I think then the station-wagon could be "in" again if it carefully marketed. There lots of station-wagon fans on the www of yesterday and today (Ford Australia still have a Falcon line-up as well as Holden Down Under) , here some sites http://www.stationwagon.com/ http://www.stationwagonforums.com/forums/
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Stphane Dumas 5:45PM (6/27/2006)
for Ford Australia, I mean a Falcon wagon in their Falcon line-up, I writed in an hurry, sorry for the incovience.
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Robert Aitchison 6:00PM (6/27/2006)
Well GM hasn't put a dime into the development of their minivans since they put a square nose on them a couple years ago and tried to pretend they were SUVs. In reality there hasn't been a single major improvement for the generals Minivans since 1997 or 1998.
As for Ford, it's pretty much the same story, the Windstar hasn't had a major update in several years either, though at least it got the fold flat 4rd row seat at the same time it got a new name. Of course it got that feature 5 years after Honda and Mazda had it.
They both have pretty much "given up" on the minivan market, letting Toyota & Honda own the market with Chrysler, Nissan & the Koreans fighting over the scraps. Ford has even directed Mazda of North America to stop selling the MPV after the rest of the world gets an all new model, hoping the much more expensive CX-9 crossover will sell in it's place (it won't).
Crossovers are great but nothing can match the complete package of practicality, economy (compared to other vehicles with the same passenger capacity) & safety of a good minivan.
What they should do is make a Hybrid minivan, minivan buyers already have shown an affinity for practicality & efficiency. It should be fairly easy for Ford since the Windstar and Escape share the same V6 so the Escape HEV drivetrain should fit quite nicely. Even the tired old Windstar would sell like hotcakes if it made 35Mpg
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Ryan 6:30PM (6/27/2006)
"As for Ford, it's pretty much the same story, the Windstar hasn't had a major update in several years either, though at least it got the fold flat 4rd row seat at the same time it got a new name. Of course it got that feature 5 years after Honda and Mazda had it."
Anyone remember the 1995 Honda Odyssey, man that thing was a peice o' shit. Still don't trust them with minivans.
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whofan 7:22PM (6/27/2006)
Chrysler is hands down the best mini van still.
I think Mazda has a great design with the Mazda 5. Ford should strike a deal with Mazda to put the blue oval on it. I`d buy the Mazda but there aren`t any dealers close to where I live.
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Gardiner Westbound 7:40PM (6/27/2006)
Ford and GM minivans are poor quality obsolete vehicles. All they have going for them is cheap.
Dad would say, "Oats are cheaper if you run them through the horse first."
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starlightmica 8:26PM (6/27/2006)
What do you expect with an almost decade old product, barely warmed over? The minivan market has moved far since then. The GM minivan, in particular, was a compromise between the US and EU markets that was a spectacular bomb in the latter as the Opel/Vauxhall Sintra, getting pulled off the market just a couple of years after its introduction due to poor quality and neck-chopping NCAP crash scores.
How GM and Ford expect to draw core minivan buyers over to crossovers is beyond me. The standard US market minivans (~200" length) are relatively cheap, hold more people + luggage, have sliding doors (usually powered) for quick & easy loading. By comparison the upcoming Saturn Outlook is heavier and no shorter, yet smaller inside than a minivan, with worse mileage estimates, and it sure isn't going to be as affordable.
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Mark 9:43PM (6/27/2006)
For those who care, minivan sales Jan06-May06:
(and I have included the new breed of "mini-mini vans" and "crossover vans" for comparison sakes)
DaimlerChrysler:
Chrysler Pacifica - 35,952
Chrysler PT Cruiser - 55,460
Chrysler Town & Country - 68,943
Dodge Caravan/Grand Carvan - 103,876
Mercedes-Benz R-Class - 8,227
Ford Motor Co.:
Ford Freestyle - 28,634
Ford Freestar - 29,569
Mercury Monterrey - 1,811
General Motors:
Buick Terraza - 5,339
Chevrolet Astro - 280
Chevrolet HHR - 42,487
Chevrolet Uplander - 25,610
Chevrolet Venture - 148
GMC Safari - 50
Oldsmobile Silhouette - 10
Pontiac Montana - 277
Pontiac Montana SV6 - 10,533
Saturn RELAY - 2,808
Import brands:
Honda Odyssey - 72,941
Hyundai Entourage - 1,194 (went on sale May 2006)
Kia Sedona - 26,215
Mazda MPV - 5,939
Mazda5 - 7,806
Nissan Quest - 12,186
Toyota Sienna - 67,404
Just some things to take note of:
*The loss of the Chevrolet Astro and GMC Safari has not been made up for by sales of other vans at GM. This counts for an almost 15,000 unit drop.
*The Chrysler Town & Country outsells the Pacific 2:1
*The Ford Freestyle barely outsells the Ford Freestar, even though this is what minivan buyers are "flocking" too
*The sold 10 Oldsmobile Silhouettes.
*Pontiac Montana SV6 sales are up 65% over last year,
but Saturn REALY is down 58%.
*The Hyundai Entourage has been on the market for ONE MONTH and by next month will already have outsold the Mercury Monterrey and Saturn RELAY.
*The Mazda5 has been a runaway hit. Dealers can't get enough. It is on track to exceed sales goals by more than 30%.
In short, sales figures do not lie. The minivan market isn't sinking. It is holding pretty steady for everyone but GM and Ford, who don't care about the market and want to put the blame on consumers when the reality is they don't know how to design a minivan. Next year Volkswagen enters the fray with a version of the new DCX minivans, and early indications are that it will be a winner. And Kia will have a second entry with the Kia Rondo to compete with the Mazda5 in the "mini-mini-van" segment.
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