Filed under: Hybrids/Alternative, Japan, Honda
Honda to make clean diesels
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Automotive News reports that Honda is on its way to putting clean diesel on the market. We should see a four-banger coming our way by 2009, with a V6 to follow (Honda didn't mention when). Honda folks say that the engines will meet U.S. emissions standards -- and not just any standards... a standard known as Tier 2 bin 5. It might sound like a wine quality category (grand cru, anyone?), but what the designation really means is that Honda's planning on making the diesels meet some really stringent standards imposed upon diesel vehicles
Bruno from AutoblogGreen tells us that Honda is relatively new to diesels, its first diesel developed totally in-house being released only in 2003. Kenichi Nagahiro, the company's chief engine designer and inventor of the celebrated VTEC engine, reportedly disliked diesels because of their smell and the racket they made. When asked to design Honda's first diesel he did so on one condition - that he could design it completely from scratch.
[Source: Automotive News and AutoblogGreen]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Razib Ahmed 6:42PM (5/23/2006)
Honda is acting wisely as now the trend is leaning towards diesel powered cars. I think that the brightest prospect for diesel powered cars is in India at this moment. General Motors and Toyota are thinking about it seriously about it in India and local companies have already started their effort. Thus, 2006 is going to be the year of diesel powered cars in India (http://www.southasiabiz.com/2006/05/2006_the_year_of_diesel_powere.html).
Honda performed very well in the US market last month and this inititiave of clean diesel will help the company to boost its sales in USA even more.
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doug 6:53PM (5/23/2006)
i'll take a 300hp 2.0L 4 cylinder diesel with an 8000 rpm redline that gets 40mpg
thanks.
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holzer 6:55PM (5/23/2006)
2009?!
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James 7:12PM (5/23/2006)
I've seen a TV news feature at KABC-7(LA) of a Bosch Roadshow testing several possible 50 state US spec diesel cars/SUVs(BMWs, Nissans, etc.) at the Irwindale Speedway. If I can find that link I'll post it here.
Mercedes, VW..and now Honda oil burners, huh..
Yep, keep 'em coming!:D
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Craig Schamp 7:17PM (5/23/2006)
2009 model year is only a little more than 2 years away.
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RWD fan 7:22PM (5/23/2006)
Honda's worldwide website has a real cool (if you're a motorhead, anyway) video of their diesel technology.
http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2003-4030226_1a/
(requires flash player)
Yeah, it's a little old, but it is years ahead of any domestic diesel.
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Bill 7:59PM (5/23/2006)
Toyota is associated with hybrids in the US, and if Honda plays things right, they just might rehabilitate the reputation of diesel-powered automobiles in the US market. Honda could do for diesel what Toyota has done for hybrids, and I personally think that a diesel car is more appropriate to the needs of many more (North) Americans than hybrids are.
I'm not favoring either technology. I think that there should be a mix in the marketplace. (I'm still not sold on ethanol though)
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Howard Kerr 8:10PM (5/23/2006)
GM "designs" a diesel....let's just convert a gasoline engine to run on diesel.
Honda designs a diesel....it must be a totally clean sheet design.
GM beat Honda to the punch on diesels, yet by cutting corners and doing "just enough to get by" GM nearly killed the market for diesel powered cars. Actually, the re-emergence of cheap gas (in the early '80s) is was killed the diesel market.
And tier 2 bin 5 is NO walk in the part for any builder of diesel cars, VW is struggling ALOT to try to meet this level of clean emissions for diesels.
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Richard Warren 8:27PM (5/23/2006)
Good for Honda, and while I'm not a huge lover of Honda (worked with them from 74 to 90)They should be able to make a very good diesel.
I actually think VW has done more for diesels here than anyone else
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Craig Schamp 9:17PM (5/23/2006)
Yes, I agree that VW has done a lot for diesel design and to improve the image of diesels. If a diesel wins the P1 class at Le Mans this year (Audi R10 TDI), that will have a big public relations impact.
Audi USA wants a 50-state solution before they bring diesels to passenger cars in the US. Real soon now. Glad to see Honda getting into the game too.
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Kevin Duffy 9:31PM (5/23/2006)
Volkswagon is the diesel standard in my mind -- I drove my Aunt and Uncle's VW Quantum Diesel through law school -- great car -- plenty of power and 45 mpg -- and it had 250,000 miles when I started driving it -- returned it when I had $ to buy decent car, and they finally got rid of it when it had 400,000 miles on it. I now covet the VW Jetta TDI -- 50 mpg and I have a 45 mile one-way drive to work -- woo -- hoo -- just have to balance the cost of the new vehicle, the fuel savings over my current $3,500.00 used drivers ed car that gets 30 mpg and see what makes the most sense -- if the VW will go for 300,000 miles, then I am there!
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Whydrive 10:06PM (5/23/2006)
Honda may make nice race car engines but for normal driving and if you have one of their slushboxes (which is the majority of their cars), their engines are a torqueless POS.
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bhtooefr 10:43PM (5/23/2006)
#12 Whydrive: Is that engine reliability, or is that torque curve?
Because the i-CTDi's torque curve is perfectly diesel-like, from what I hear. Therefore, drivability will be just like any other diesel.
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md 10:46PM (5/23/2006)
"Yeah, it's a little old, but it is years ahead of any domestic diesel."
With a good graphic designer I could make a ford flat head look high tech. Not to discount Honda's great engineering abilities, but how can you take a self promoting clip seriously?
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Dave 11:02PM (5/23/2006)
I see that Subaru is putting together some turbo diesels too. That combination with their 4wd packages could really continue to kick butt especially in the northern climate areas. A lot of people haven't been considering Subies due to their relatively poor mileage.
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Bill 11:17PM (5/23/2006)
9, 10, 11, I don't disagree that VW has a good diesel image, but it doesn't have a good reliability image. Whatever you think of Hondas, they don't have to worry about that problem, and I don't think they would release any product that would hurt that image.
p.s. I'm not a Honda guy. I've been bored with them for at least 15 years now.
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G. Snyder 12:04AM (5/24/2006)
Actually, VW diesel's are pretty long lived and stout. It is not the engine you should be worried about. It is all the other stuff like window regulators and random electical components.
The verdict still seems to be out on reliability of the Mark V Jetta/Golf. Maybe they have improved. I would still be nervous though.
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naggs 12:46AM (5/24/2006)
#2, a diesel wont rev to 8k. the slow burning nature of diesel means that at high revs it wont have time to completly burn before the power stroke is over and the exhaust valve opens. your more likly to break 100 ft/lb per liter before you break 100 hp per liter in a N/A disel. turbo disel is the way to go.
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PJ 2:31AM (5/24/2006)
"Honda may make nice race car engines but for normal driving and if you have one of their slushboxes (which is the majority of their cars), their engines are a torqueless POS."
Whydrive, ever driven a Honda Accord V6? Or an Acura TL? Or an NSX? Or...
Anyway, the slushbox qualifier is definitely a necessary one. While base Civics and Accords aren't a great deal of fun, wringing out an S2000 or RSX Type-S is a joy (and I'm generally a fan of torquey N/A V6s and inline-Sixes). You should try it sometime.
The single biggest thing that turns me off to diesels is their inability to rev past 4,500 rpm or so. Maybe if Honda's building one, we'll get to see a 6,000 rpm redline, loads of torque, AND 35 MPG? Here's hoping...
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Arnie 7:05AM (5/24/2006)
"...design it completely from scratch." What does that mean? That they are not going to copy from someone else this time? Right!
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