Filed under: Concept Cars, Coupes, Sports/GTs, Chevrolet, Daimler, Dodge, Ford, GM
Dodge insists Challenger does not yet have green light
In a questionable PR move, Chrysler's VP of Communications Jason Vines told Inside Line that despite internet reports of a supplier already working on components for the production version of the Dodge Challenger Concept the company has not yet given the pony project a green light. Vines, who is on the product strategy team for the Challenger, says a business case is being produced "fast" and a decision should be reached by the end of the year. We already know Chevy needs to produce 100,000 Camaros annually for its pony car to turn a profit, so it would stand to reason Dodge is considering how it's going to move that many Challengers. Currently the Mustang is capable of 160,000 sales per year, so the big question is whether or not the market can sustain the sale of 300,000-plus muscle cars per year.
[Source: Inside Line]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Tim 10:40AM (5/16/2006)
I don't think dodge needs to sell 100,000 challengers to make a business case for it. I suspect that given the 300 and charger that a small 30-40,000 production per year would be enough to sustain the challenger.
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jamie 10:56AM (5/16/2006)
Can the market sustain 300,000 pony cars a year? Obviously not. Mustang has the entire market as we speak, but only produces 160,000 copies.
What about my Camaro then? The pronlem is solved by platform sharing. Solstice, GTO and other compact, midsize and fullsize Pontiac models could be made on the same platform, thus ensuring some degree of profitability. This would also separate the sporty American Pontiac (RWD) from the mass production Chevrolet (FWD) models (Corvette and Camaro excepted, of course!)
As for Challenger, DC will have to find similar avenues of compatibility. Perhaps the next generation Sebring and Neon replacement could augment sales if the were RWD also. Charger already lends itself to the fold nicely though. How about a coupe version DieterCo (DC, hehe)?
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Dodge Challenger 10:59AM (5/16/2006)
For some more never before seen photos of the Challenger, be sure to check out http://www.challengertalk.com, more specifically, this thread: http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=580
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jamie 11:03AM (5/16/2006)
Can the market sustain 300,000 pony cars a year?
Obviously not.
Mustang has the entire market as we speak, but only produces 160,000 copies.
What about my Camaro then? The problem is solved by
platform sharing. Solstice, GTO and other compact, midsize and fullsize Pontiac models could be made on variations of the same platform, thus ensuring some degree of profitability. This would also separate the
sporty American Pontiac (RWD) from the mass production Chevrolet(FWD) models (Corvette and Camaro excepted, of course!)
As for Challenger, DC will have to find similar avenues of compatibility. Perhaps the next generation Sebring and Neon replacement could augment sales if the were RWD also. Charger already lends itself to
the fold nicely though. How about a Charger coupe DieterCo (DC, hehe)?
I agree with Tim that DC doesn't have to make a whole lot of Challengers to make a profit. Challenger is a drawing card and image maker...and a necessary one. Much like Solstice and Sky are for GM.
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DJ 11:04AM (5/16/2006)
I agree with number one. Whereas the Camaro is being designed as a unique vehicle, the Challenger is being designed with a larger group of cars that will share a common platform; the next-gen versions of the 300, Magnum, Charger, Imperial, etc. As part of that aggregate, 30-40,000 cars should be enough to produce a positive value.
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David 11:07AM (5/16/2006)
Tim, I agree. The Challenger will be another car off the 300 platform which is already making back it's cost. The Camaro is on a new platform (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), though even there, is GM saying it needs to sell 100k Camaros or 100k cars split between Camaro and Firebird?
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WillDaThrill 11:10AM (5/16/2006)
Mustang also has a lot of companies turning out different versions of them too. What is there like 8 to 10 different versions to choose from?
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steve s 11:19AM (5/16/2006)
Part of the business case on the negative side for the Challenger is going to be cost and gas mileage. The Challenger is based on a shortened LX platform which already underpins the 300C, Magnum and Charger. DCX will need to provide at a minimum a 5.7 hemi as an option to keep costs down and MPG up. Just look at the Charger R/T and SRT8 for costs and MPG for a Challenger. To play in the pony market you need to hit under 30k and DCX won?t do that using only a 6.1 getting an average of 16 MPG.
I agree that DCX doesn?t need to sell 100k of these a year to be profitable since the platform is spread around to so many models.
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Alex 11:37AM (5/16/2006)
Can the market sustain 300,000 pony cars a year?
I also, don't beleive DCX has too build that many.
Just like when the 300 came out, they were not running the plant at full throttle.
Once business picked up, they added a 3rd shift.
Now they build all three, 300, Magnum & Charger. Adding the Challenger to that line? If they do?
I am sure they can squeeze out 30 to 40K cars per year.
If demand is high, then there will be an issue.
Price will be the number 1 factor, either it will be priced similar to the Mustang, or same as the Charger, which may be too high?
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S1500 12:13PM (5/16/2006)
No Dodge, don't get up. You don't have to make it. We woudln't want to burden you with all those profits for a car people just might want. :)
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x23 12:24PM (5/16/2006)
in other news.
DCX not-too-subtley asks for an email campaign or petition be started. they heard the Camaro concept had a similar thing happen... and it seems like a useful bit of marketing to be able to mention it.
i hope they do build it actually. but over $30K? meh. interest starts dropping off at that point.
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Tom W 12:24PM (5/16/2006)
Demand for any product does not remain at the same level over time. It can go up or down. Look at the demand for the Apple ipod. When it became part of the culture the demand took off. The same thing can happen to muscle cars. A lot of young people have never known the excitement of horsepower and performance. It has a primal attraction that cannot be reasoned away. Oddly enough, I also see it as a safety feature. If muscle cars become part of the culture again 300,000 total sales per year might become 300,000 sales per quarter. Worldwide, of course.
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Mike 12:26PM (5/16/2006)
I quit buying or even looking at Chrysler products years ago after a run of problems with an '86 LeBaron, '90 Sundance, and '93 Shadow (same problems on all three). The Challenger is the first time in twelve years I've even considered purchasing another Chrysler product.
I think there's plenty of market for it. Ford sells 160k Mustangs a year because that's all they make. There's room for more cars of this sort.
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RossL 12:46PM (5/16/2006)
> so the big question is whether or not the market can sustain the sale of 300,000-plus muscle cars per year
Puh-leez. The majority of new Mustangs that hit the street are NOT muscle cars. They are moderately powered two-door coupes. Retro styling is not synonymous with muscle.
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Corey W. 12:53PM (5/16/2006)
DJ,
The new Camaro is to utilize the new GM Zeta Platform along with the new VE Holden Commodore, Pontiac GTO, Chevy Impala, Chevy Monte Carlo and Buick Velite. There's also suppose to be 3 other sedans (Pontiac, Buick, Saturn) to use this platform. So it's not really going to be a unique vehicle in that sense.
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bob 1:00PM (5/16/2006)
If Dodge doesnt build this car it will be a huge mistake. They allready screwed up the Charger (who makes a muscle car with 4 doors). The Charger is such a disapointment! I still have faith that if the Challenger stays true to the concept, they should out sell the fugly looking Camaro, that car is gross! The pictures and specs of the Challenger look so appealling. When can I leave my deposit?
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Aki 1:01PM (5/16/2006)
Wha? $30k? The Challenger would bomb at that price. It needs to be $24k and under, and get decent gas mileage.
I don't care about the Challenger so much, but I'm looking forward to seeing the Camaro. Hopefully they don't tone down the lines much--and hopefully they'll get moving on pushing it to production for 2008.
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steve s 2:01PM (5/16/2006)
If Dodge puts out a 5.7l hemi they could get under 30k and under 25k with the v6. The latest info I heard said 6.1 and possibly a 6.4 which would be way over 30k, just look at the base Charger SRT8 at 38k with that yummy $2,100 in GGT.
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Mal Fuller 2:20PM (5/16/2006)
Do you really think,Mr. Neff, that DCX looks to General Motors' press releases about their Camaro calculations to decide whether or not to build the Dodge Challenger?
Based on this type of management decision making, the Viper would never have left the design studio.
Truth is, it's General Motors that should have a good look at what DCX is doing.
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MikeW 3:58PM (5/16/2006)
Why bother with another derivation of the LX when DCX can't do the primary cars well.
2.7 V6 + W5a580 + 3.64 axle ratio (rear drive)
2.7 V6 + W5a580 + 3.90 axle ratio (four wheel drive)
3.5 V6 + W5a580 + 3.07 axle ratio (rear drive)
3.5 V6 + W5a580 + 3.64 axle ratio (four wheel drive)
5.7 V8 + W5a580 + 2.82 axle ratio (rear drive)
5.7 V8 + W5a580 + 3.07 axle ratio (four wheel drive)
Too damn easy.
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