Toyota's NASCAR presence has other teams sweating
Toyota, currently running roughshod over other automakers in the showrooms, will be hitting NASCAR next year with the goal of doing the same thing to its competition on the track. Word around the pits is that this is causing sleepless nights for other teams, but not for reasons one would think. The concern here isn't the lap times, but simple economics - if Toyota subsidizes its Nextel Cup teams as it does for its teams in the Craftsman Truck series, the support that a big-ticket sponsor has to offer up could be cut in half from the current yearly value of $16M or so. Yanking several million dollars out from under the currently-established teams would be a catastrophic event with the potential of completing shaking up the pecking order. The first bit of evidence in support of this theory is the recent decision by UPS to defect to Michael Waltrip's Toyota team; a decision that certainly could have been fueled by the promise of a greatly-reduced sponsorship bill.
If indeed Toyota offers significant financial support to its teams - which it currently claims is not in the budget - it is unlikely that other manufacturers will step up and start cutting their own checks (as it is, rumors are already flying that one of the Big 3 is already looking to pull out of the Nextel Cup).
[Source: USA Today]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Eric G. 1:39PM (5/14/2006)
If they watched Formula 1, they'd know Toyota outspends and underperforms almost every other team on the grid. Their cars are pigs and show no signs of improvement in the near future. So relax a littl guys. (But not too much!)
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Bill 1:58PM (5/14/2006)
I admit to not knowing much about NASCAR. I understand that this is a big deal in terms of marketing.
But it's not like a Toyota NASCAR car is "really" a Camry. Would it even have a real Toyota engine? Aren't NASCAR cars carburated??
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VW-Guy 2:46PM (5/14/2006)
I was just going to post what #1 did but you beat me to it Eric. I've heard Toyota has a MASSIVE budget in F1 and has spent money like a drunken sailor on shore leave to get where they are, which isn't worth bragging about one bit. How many years and how much money has it taken them to get where they are in F1 right now? I think if people knew they'd be amazed.
Remember, Toyota are the masters of mass production, not racing. Only thing Toyota can do is write cheques and let other people do the work for them. Unless they can get the talent away from existing teams they will not be #1, or #2, or... As for Waltrip? Puh-lease. If they can get Johnson's or Earnhardt's entire camp to switch over, then there will be competition. Until then, it will be a slow and expensive uphill slog to be a mid pack finisher.
Now this is Nascar, with a big enough unaccounted for cheque the rules could be skewed in Toyota's favour but that will be short sighted for sure.
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gbh 2:47PM (5/14/2006)
Eric, I won't disagree about F1 - but this ain't F1.
Toyota does pretty darn well in the truck series. They will probably do the same in Napcar, if they are allowed in.
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Kevin W 2:57PM (5/14/2006)
Yeah, Toyota is doing well in the truck series, but look how long it took them to get there (about 5 years). So its not like they will win the cup championship next year. Also unless UPS announced today they where going with Waltrip that article is not correct. Thye did how ever get Dale Jarrett who drives the UPS Ford.
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Bob_Ericson 4:29PM (5/14/2006)
So what's the deal with NASCAR? What's with the engines? Do they all have to use the same engine?
What really torques (I made a pun!) about Big Racing (F1, Indy, NASCAR, etc.) is that there is sooo little tech. Seems like people are more wrapped up in the personalities and the business than technology.
Ya, I know performance is corked or they'd be running with 1,000+ HP, but I'd like to know.
Seems like the only racing where it's as much about the engine as the driver is Top Fuel.
http://www.nhra.com/streetlegal/funfacts.html
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Proud Japanese 6:40PM (5/14/2006)
Haha, F1 has little tech? What are you talking about. F1 is the most technologically advanced racing in the world. Why do you think so many people hold it in such high regard. Getting 750+ hp from a 2.4L NA V8 is not low tech. Getting all that downforce without using ground force is not low tech. Don't even bother comparing F1 to Top Fuel. You should know that outside America people don't consider going in a straight line a form of racing.
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PJ 7:48PM (5/14/2006)
I'm honestly surprised that this story hasn't sparked more angry comments. Not because it deserves to, but because I thought fans of the series would be far more outraged about a "Camry" entering the good-ol'-boy world of NASCAR.
Of course, the final Toyota race car will have as much in common with a Camry as it does with a bulldozer, same with the "Fusion," "Monte Carlo," etc... which I suppose could be why there's not that much controversy here.
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Redneck texan 8:52PM (5/14/2006)
I would quit watching nascar if any of the Big 3 leave they all have past memories that will last forever. A gay camry does not have anything close to a NASCAR history.
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gbh 8:57PM (5/14/2006)
All racing (that has spectators and sponsors) is about entertainment and competition.
It has always (last 15-20 years esp.) seemed that nascar is 95% about off-track entertainment and advertising. If they were still racing stripped shells of a car you could get on the dealer lot, with modified factory engines...
Bob, like most forms of racing, they have LOTS of rules. Nascar's rules force the use of very primitive engine technology in order to (theoretically) slow the cars down - and to keep it from gettin' all high-falootin' like them thar fancy boys in F1. Nascar is primarily about entertainment and advertising dollars -not primarily about racing.
The average nascar consumer can understand carbs and pushrods. The reality is they put a ton of engineering time and effort into those stone-axe engines, to get the HP they get with restrictor plates and such.
Without a boatload of rules on many forms of autosport, speeds would top 300 MPH on a regular basis on the longer road tracks. This would make racing FAR more interesting to watch and demand even higher skill levels of drivers, and engineering would be shifted to a whole new level.
Reality is, of course, race driving would return to being a much higher-risk occupation. It would also become a bit more dangerous for the on-site spectator. That would be bad for sponsors - so it will never happen again.
This is why many drag racing classes are saddled with Roots blowers. Everybody who's forced to run one would swap it for a turbo or a twin-screw in a heartbeat. Between the cabal that still makes those museum pieces, and the fact that instantly Top Fuel would get a WHOLE lot faster... it won't happen anytime soon.
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whofan 9:56PM (5/14/2006)
Nascar sucks anyway!
It`s not like you can go down to your local dealership and buy an awsome car like is was 1967 or something.
Phony so called stock car with a name that means nothing.
The teams and drivers is what its all about now.
They should bring back real stock car racing.
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lavardera 10:20PM (5/14/2006)
So what's the deal with this - does that nascar camry have front drive? Or the fusion for that matter? Does it actually run an engine block that you can get in the car? Why is this nascar racing so popular? Doesn't rally racing do for real what these guys are pretending to do? Hop up a factory chassis and drive it like hell? And the driving, what is so compelling about going round in loops on a glorified freeway, when compared to driving like a lunatic in a rally.
I just don't get it. I can live with that...
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Bob_Ericson 2:40AM (5/15/2006)
Proud Japanese;
I'm not speaking about the technology of F1, but the focus on technology. It all happens behind the curtain for the most part. We all know Renault developed the hydrolic valves for today's F1s, but do you know exactly how they work? If you do, I'd be surprised.
There are plenty of articles and exposes about how Top Fuel works. Top Fuel is one racing category that doesn't stifle engines. The outlaw this and outlaw that. And all the fans look at the pretty colors on the cars. If you've ever been to a Top Fuel event and seen a 4 second quarter mile and still say it isn't racing, then you're the first.
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Rubber Side Down 4:10AM (5/15/2006)
Bob_Ericson:
1) I agree with you when you say technology used in the F1 is not readily accessible to the general public, but if you have the time and are willing to take the effort, you could learn about anything, including but not limited to *hydraulic* valves.
2) A 4 second quarter mile is fast, but it's a sledgehammer compared to a scalpel (racing in other forms). The only skill in a Top Fuel racer is to keep the vehicle in a straight line, and let all the power stuffed under you do it's work to get to that finish line in a hurry. Is that level of skill anywhere near the amount of precision in F1, the WRC or the new Formula D? Nascar comes a bit closer, but driving in an oval? Isn't that a bit boring?
3) Big engines, big power. Apart from being politically incorrect and not "gay", according to Redneck texan, I do agree all that horses and torque made from burning so much fuel is bound to give you a kick, but you have to give it to the others to make that kind of power using their tuning skills.
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Ken Wu 8:45AM (5/15/2006)
The reason that Nascar is so popular is that in any given week 5-10 different teams have a chance at winning the race. And usually, it comes down to a 2-4 car race near the end. When was the last time any other racing series can say that. When can any other racing series, say that there were as many green lap lead changes as there are in Nascar.
Yes, the go around in circles ... but the just means there are some 40 odd cars vying for a small amount of track.
That's what the aduience wants. Competition, the thrill of victory, the thrill of coming in second by 0.001 seconds. Not having one person win the entire season. Not having the top 2 cars lap the entire field and have a 30 second gap between themselves.
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Mad Scientist Matt 9:33AM (5/15/2006)
Another advantage of roundy-round is that it's very watchable, at least if you are at the track and not watching it on TV. At your typical road course, you can sit in one corner and watch the cars for just a small section of the track. Oval tracks often have seating that lets you see the whole track at one time.
And the engines are pretty far removed from current motors, but you can look at them as a much more developed version of the carbed smallblock V8's that are popular with Joe Average Hotrodder - or, for that matter, what's actually used at the NASCAR version of the minor leagues. I've even seen a modern NASCAR V8 stuffed under the hood of an older Camaro and driven on the street.
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mavkato 9:47AM (5/15/2006)
9. I would quit watching nascar if any of the Big 3 leave they all have past memories that will last forever. A gay camry does not have anything close to a NASCAR history.
Posted at 8:52PM on May 14th 2006 by Redneck texan 0 stars
Didnt chrysler co pull out for quite a few years, and then re-enter? for a long time, it was chevy, pontiac, and ford. now pontiac is gone and dodge is back. did you stop watching nascar when chrysler pulled out? idiot.
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KBS 11:01AM (5/15/2006)
i think the next team to go nascar should be hyundai... if a big 3 decides to drop out.
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LosBurritos 3:09PM (5/15/2006)
Toyota entering Nascar is a big waste of money. Nascar is a dying business with a million internal financial issues. Plus, Toyota shouldn't be advertin to the folks who watch Nascar. They should be working to spend more on GREEN fuel or HYBRID technology.
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Bob_Ericson 3:23PM (5/15/2006)
Rubber,
Actually, F1 is my favorite racing. But, Top Fuel is a close second. I pretty much loathe NASCAR.
I do know a bit about F1 engines, but not nearly enough. If you've got links, post them!
On the contrary, Car & Driver (before they really started sucking) did a big expose on John Force's Chief Mechanic and what a phenominal blend of art and science goes into Top Fuel. Never seen anything remotely like that in other organizations. Not that T-F is just engines... They'res plenty of "personality", but with other forms of racing, it is way too much personality for me.
I'm a gearhead at heart and wish F1 was more like T-F in this regard. But, with the rules the way they are, every variable that's in the chassis maker's control is so limited that such changes and deviations from your competitors is a huge secret. I'm sure the manufacturers don't like the anonymous role their talents all to often play.
It's all about the rules.
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