Filed under: I.C.E., Tech, Volkswagen
Volkswagen Twincharger TSI voted "Best New Engine of 2006"
Volkswagen's innovative marriage of a supercharger and a turbocharger on the same 1.4-liter engine gained the automaker two prizes (one for each induction system?) at the "International Engine of the Year Awards 2006" - "Best Engine, 1-liter to 1.4-liter category", and "Best New Engine of 2006."VW's "maximum power - minimum consumption" strategy for the TSI powerplant led to designers using a supercharger for low-range power, and a turbocharger for efficiency at higher rpm. The twincharger system is shown in the drawing at right.
The TSI is currently available in the Golf GT and the Touran.
[Source: Volkswagen]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Noah 5:50PM (5/10/2006)
In other news VW issued a premptive recall on all cars using this engine to fix reliability issues with supercharge seals, turbocharger bearings, faulty coil packs and bugs in the firmware.
I'm kidding... if you don't follow VWs that wouldn't be as funny of a comment as it should have been... shame on you.
--Noah
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bgdc 5:50PM (5/10/2006)
This concept should be implemented across the board on engines. A 3.0 with a twincharger implementation would improve torque, hp and economy by leaps.
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tcc3 6:52PM (5/10/2006)
Ok, where do I get one of these for my Bug? =)
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Michael Karesh 7:37PM (5/10/2006)
Obvious issues: reliability (any manufacturer) and cost. Ironically, VW's FSI turbos have very little lag, which would seem to eliminate the need for this complicated setup.
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chewy 7:44PM (5/10/2006)
This set up is made for smaller engines. It is a great engine, 170 hp and about 35 m.p.g. Hopefully it can make it over here some time soon. The only problem is costs. It is probably an expensive engine, and will require premium. This is why the Jetta got the 2.5 liter engine instead of the 2.0 FSI in the first place.
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Kumar 7:46PM (5/10/2006)
Could someone at VW please tell us all why this isn't comeing the the US anytime soon. With no 2007 model year diesel engines in the works, it would make for a great time to introduce an efficient gas engine to the market.
In reality....about as likely as the US getting the Euro Focus any time this decade...
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gbh 8:05PM (5/10/2006)
Sometimes wonder if the editor is alive...
There is nothing "innovative" about using a turbo and a mechanical charger on the same engine. It was done with aircraft engines in the 1930s. It has been done on automobile engines as well. Mass-production - not on VW's scale. Perhaps "different", "interesting update", "new twist on an old idea".
If it has been done before, it is *not* "innovation".
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Jon 8:05PM (5/10/2006)
Couldn't they just tweak a twin turbo setup to be as efficient as a supercharger/turbo combo?
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Jay MIller 8:25PM (5/10/2006)
Or one of those turbos that are pre-spooled by an electric motor?
Seems like a lot of additional moving parts (i.e. - problems).
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Jimbo 10:17PM (5/10/2006)
Jon,
I think you are referring to a 2 stage turbo setup as opposed to a twin turbo setup.
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dave 10:45PM (5/10/2006)
This is innovative? We've all known about twincharging for years.
The problem is making it work well together.
And that is NOT something I trust to VW. They can't even make a plain naturally-aspirated car reliable. Forced induction makes any car less reliable... a complex dual-forced system coming from a low-quality manufacturer is truly a marriage made in hell.
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dave 10:47PM (5/10/2006)
This is innovative? We've all known about twincharging for years.
The problem is making it work well together.
And that is NOT something I trust to VW. They can't even make a plain naturally-aspirated car reliable. Forced induction makes any car less reliable... a complex dual-forced system coming from a low-quality manufacturer is truly a marriage made in hell.
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gbh 10:58PM (5/10/2006)
Jay, I would tend to agree with you about potential issues (even ignoring some of VW's quality issues of late).
"Simplicate, and add lightness.."
It is also hard to rationalize with cousin Porsche bringing back Variable Vane Turbos to automotive apps -garnering most (if not all) of the benefits without the added technical degree of difficulty. (In a rather sad publicity move, Porsche is claiming first use of Variable Vane on a production auto. Sad, because it was actually used on one of the huffed Shelbys of the mid 80's.)
Subaru and Porsche have gotten away from two-stage, or sequential turbocharging and returned to single turbos for most but race apps. Like most other hardware, computers have allowed the turbocharger to be a far more efficient instrument than it was 10 years ago. Trying to tune sequentials to work smoothly on a street app is a PITA.
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Alan 11:14PM (5/10/2006)
#6 and #10, by your standard, almost nothing is actually "innovative" in the automotive industry because it's all been done before in some other form. New twists on old themes does qualify as innovative if it is done in a better way.
I've come to accept that Autoblog is full of VW bashers who don't seem to realize that VW isn't a niche producer but is Europe's largest (and thus a mass-producer), but what I don't understand is that QC issues plagued all European manufacturers earlier this decade (DC actually being hit the hardest), but for some reason only VW's reputation took a hit.
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Keith 2:28AM (5/11/2006)
Well, I would LEASE a car with that engine!
Very interesting, but seems like it is WAY too complex.
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Joey (Kev) 5:46AM (5/11/2006)
#12 #7
You really go out of your way to rant about VW, don't you? I wonder why they are the only car maker with this type of engine? If it is so common how come nobody else does it? Because that combination of power and fuel economy sure looks good and this is a product that is on the road living up to its claims.
And check out ADAC reliability report for 2006. Turns out VW's 2005 models (Golf, Polo, Passat, New Beetle) beat the Japanese models. So you should get prepared to complain about somebody else the years to come!
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DJA 8:52AM (5/11/2006)
#16
I guess you can count me as one of the bashers..and my feelings are based on personal experience as well as what I've read about the experience of other VW owners. The bashing is not unjustified.
The ADAC report cannot be considered an unbiased report. It is a German Automotive Association report. Regardless, it will take more than one model year to erase many years of poor quality vehicles, and that isn't just my opinion. There is a reason VW is a second tier brand in the US. It's not because of design - the cars look great, and it's not because of engineering talent - the DSG and this engine are unique in the industry. It's because they've built a reputation for making nice looking, seemingly well-engineered cars that spent a disproportionate amount of time being repaired. Even a top level VW official has made a target of a 50% reduction in warranty claims. They recognize they're cars are breaking far too often.
I hope you are right that VW has turned the corner and I'll be first in line to buy their cars. But it's way too early for me to spend my cash on a new VW product. I'll stay on the sidelines until they've established a *longer-term* reputation for reliability. I think many other informed buyers will do the same.
In many ways this mirrors the problems facing the US manufacturers. Many years of sub-standard cars have created a large pool of alienated car buyers. Cars are a lot of money for most people and if you burn them, it takes a looong time to get them back.
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Peter W. 8:56AM (5/11/2006)
Joey(Kev) #16
The sad thing about making a bunch of enemies by building crappy cars that wait until just-after the warranty dies... is that these enemies tend to talk bad about them.
Also, since VW's tend to riddle themselves with cheap bosche crap (coil packs, alternators, motors, security systems)... Initial reliability surveys probably don't reveal the reliability nightmare waiting for them 3 years down the road if they had the misfortune to finance one of the little beasties.
Also, if the ADAC is european (which i assume it is if you are citing reliability for the polo) it will probably have better reports considering VW's have vastly different trimlines and manufacture over the pond. Meanwhile, most Americans were told they were getting German goodness for the cheap, when they were actually getting BMW problems for Acura prices. The fact that most of the models that soured so many Americans being assembled in Mexico didn't help.
Meanwhile, last time I checked VWVortex there were about two "lets class-action lawsuit VWUSA" over problems that even the ENTHUSIASTS hated. Little wonder why MyVWLemon.com has such a vibrant community.
Back on topic: Yea, I'd lease a car with this engine.
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Steve 9:02AM (5/11/2006)
I guess I'm one of the lucky minorities in VW land. I've been driving an '04 Jetta 1.8t for over 2 years without a single problem.
I guess now that I've said that it will probably break down on the way home, eh?
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Richard Warren 10:15AM (5/11/2006)
"Little wonder why MyVWLemon.com has such a vibrant community."
Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeee, myvwlemon.com a "vibrant" community? Fully 1/4 of the comments are by one person a screen name of, up-the-river who thinks he's an engineer and and an oil expert, most of his repair suggestions are bullshit. There are about 10 posters who hog the site on a regular basis and a webmaster who censors tons of posts of any pro VW comments.
Then take a real hard look at the problem years 2000-2002 mostly and that mirrors the coil and window problems, all addressed by VW. Then read the posts, the majority now are talking about "used" VW's, sorry I have no pity for them, if you're dumb enough to purchase something with no clue as to it's history and have problems, look in the mirror.
And memory is short, look at VW's increases with the 2005-2006 models. VW had a pretty hard lapse for about 2 1/2 years and struggled with suppliers to get production up for the affected parts.
They are no different than anyother maker, let's see Toyota sludge ring any bells? While it's been a while 77-79 Honda's head gasket and A-pipe failures, What's the name of that other car? Excel, no problems there.
Manufacturers have problems, cars, appliances, you name it. Get over it.
For what it's worth I still have a VW Jetta built during this period, no problems at all, my son and daughter have a 2002 and a 2003 the 2002 had coils, once replaced, just fine, the 2003 no problems, I had a 2001 had coils and 1 window problem that's it, sold outright at 90,000 miles with no other problems. The dealer was great, the repairs were quick and that was the end of it.
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