Buried within
a GreenCarCongress article on Ford’s attendance at the recent Lifestyles of Health and Sustainability conference
are some comments made by Niel Golightly, Ford’s Director of Sustainable Business Strategies, about plug-in
hybrids. Golightly admits that Ford is investigating the technology that allows hybrids to achieve even greater fuel
economy, but cautions there are three obstacles that must be overcome before it could see production: battery life,
warranty coverage and safety.A Ford representative, however, revealed to GreenCarCongress that “the message [about plug-in hybrids] is coming through loud and clear.” When asked about plug-in hybrid conversions being performed on Escape Hybrids by HyMotion, the representative stated “we encourage our customers to be creative with our cars.”
Is there a skunk-works plug-in hybrid program operating over at Ford? Perhaps. Toyota has aleady publicly stated that a plug-in Prius will not happen, which leaves the door open for Ford to swoop in and steal some of the green limelight.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Puff Chippy @ May 1st 2006 8:44AM
So why is a plug-in hybrid so difficult? I don't understand why the manufacturers are so reluctant to do this.
steve s @ May 1st 2006 9:30AM
I'm guessing that high cost of home electricity is still cheaper than the high costs of gasoline?
G. Snyder @ May 1st 2006 9:36AM
I am confused as to the advantages of being able to plug the car in. I guess you could store more electricity, but if you have a commute that necessitates getting up to highway speed it seems like you are likely to tap the conventional gas engine regardless. Couple that with the fact that electricity from the grid does not come out of thin air - it is likely produced by a fossil fuel burning plant.
doug @ May 1st 2006 9:41AM
Why would you want a plug in and limit the usefulness of your vehicle or risk getting caught with a low battery??
Rene Curry @ May 1st 2006 9:55AM
I would bet the issue is more about liabilities. Have someone else do it.
Issues like how to have a safe disconnect when there are fuel vapors present. How to address what will happen if they leave it plugged in and drive off. How to handle outdoor power for those without garages.
A cheap trickle charger ain't going to cut it, but at over $8000.00 that's crazy. I know I could design a low cost interconnect system.
Micah @ May 1st 2006 9:59AM
What's the point of starting a 'Green' blog if you still put all the hybrid news here?
CS @ May 1st 2006 10:03AM
Quick list of benefits:
Current plug-in versions of the Prius (aftermark upgrades, of course) can go around 50 miles on battery alone (at highway speeds it gets about 25-50% of its boost from the gas engine). For most commuters this means that they can make their work commute along with a few errands without using much gas (since when has the avg. American commuter travelled >50 mph during rush-hour commutes?).
You can go a month between visiting the gas station.
The vehicle can still make long trips. For long trips you rely on the gasoline engine.
The current problems with plug-in hybrids are much, much easier to fix than the problems with fuel cell vehicles.
While the electricity used to power a plug-in hybrid is not free from pollution, it is generated in a central location--making it much easier to clean up than tail pipes.
Finally, most people will charge their batteries in the evening, when the demand on the electricity grid is low.
Swade @ May 1st 2006 10:07AM
John,
Don't know if you knew this, but Saab's Biopower Hybrid convertible at the Stockholm Car Show last month was a plug-in. GM ordered that Saab pull the press release at the last minute and the plug-in functionality was never mentioned, but it was there. The plug was behind the badge, which was glued shut for the show.
The original story about this was covered in Swedish paper, Aftonbladet. I covered it here:
http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2006/04/did_gm_screw_sa.html
What's more, some publications actually received the original press release, which noted the plug-in functionality and they printed it online. I've got a screendump of one there here:
http://www.trollhattansaab.net/archives/2006/04/the_smoking_gun.html
If you Google the appropriate phrases in the press release, you'll see that other services used it too.
My info is that the order to pull the plug on the release (pardon the pun) was from amongst the highest ranks of GM.
Optimus Prime @ May 1st 2006 10:11AM
Agree with #5. They have to make the process completely idiot proof. There are too many things that could go wrong. Perhaps it decreases the life of the battery as well.
Fazzster @ May 1st 2006 10:58AM
Should the engineers have located the plug in a place on the vehicle where it is least subject to damage? it should make for very expensive fender-bender repairs.
MP @ May 1st 2006 11:14AM
Places like California already have electricity generation problems. Can you imagine a significant number of people plugging in their vehicles to California's borderline utility system during the summer?
jeff @ May 1st 2006 12:06PM
Everybody's ragging on this! You can't deny that this is development for the better. #4 definitely doesn't understand this concept for one thing... A plug in hybrid isn't any less versatile than a regular hybrid, you still have a gas tank and a gas engine, its just that instead of all the energy in your battery coming from burning the gas in the tank, you can charge it up from a wall plug too. I think plug-ins only really show their benefits if you give a good boost to the battery capacity though, and i think that's part of the deal, that's what they're working on.
People have brought up the one good point though, and that's the source of the energy coming through that plug. In a lot of places, ya, it comes from a dirty source, coal fire or whatever. I don't know for sure, but I agree with #7 in that its a lot easier to control the pollution coming out of one central location, rather than trying to cram all this pollution treatment stuff onto each car. I'm willing to bet that a modern coal fire plant at this point produces less pollution per unit of energy than a car. And also... there are many parts of the world that have moved on to clean sources of electricity, and the rest of the world will hopefully catch up soon. I'm from Montreal, pretty much all our electricity comes from Hydro. Ya that fucks a lot of shit up when you set it up the first time, but the damage has been done and we know have a completely sustainable, unpolluting source of electricity, and every mile travelled on 100% electric in a plug in hybrid would be completely pollution free, until of course you use up all the energy you got from the wall after a long trip.
I've always felt plug in hybrids would provide a completely seamless transition to 100% electric vehicles without gas engines at all. You get a plug in escape that can do 50 miles without the engine now, don't need a change of infrastructure at all, except maybe, you're right, especially in California... gotta beef up the power grid. But this can be done gradually. Soon, the battery technology will improve, increasing that range, maybe eventually to the point that you could go 300 miles without turning on the engine, and it'll eventually get to the point where you have to ask if you need that engine at all anymore. Ya, of course now you've got the whole population eventually getting all their transportation energy needs from the electricity grid. But like i said, we could gradually beef up that system. A hydrogen powered economy would require a completely new infrastructure to be installed.
100% electric car would be just as clean as a hydrogen powered car, since they both get their energy in the end from power plants. The only difference would be long term disposability. From what i've heard, lithium ion batteries (which are really the way to go at this point) really aren't that bad at all in the long run, you can recycle a lot of them. I'm not sure what's involved with a hydrogen fuel cell in terms of disposal once its dead... i don't really know what goes into a proton exchange membrane.
M1EK @ May 1st 2006 12:38PM
Toyota IS reportedly working on a plug-in Prius for the next-gen, and the whole point of this is that you plug in overnight at home, when there's surplus electricity on the grid (including some very cheap stuff which otherwise goes unused - i.e. nukes and hydro are hard to just shut off at night).
I'm dubious myself for all the various liability reasons, but if you're going to oppose it, at least have your facts straight.
Ian @ May 1st 2006 1:21PM
My amigo won't start unless my foot is on the clutch, so I think it can be engineered so that the car won't go unless it's unplugged...That would be a start on idiot proofing the plug-in. We're going to have to learn new behaviors too, although I still sometimes see people smoking while refueling their car!
I'd like to start seeing series hybrids on the market. I think that would provide a better case for plug-ins.
Dan @ May 1st 2006 11:57PM
The power grid problem isn't as bad as you'd think, because peak duty cycles are usually during the day, and most plug-in hybrids will be plugeged in at night. In fact, it could make energy generation more efficient by smoothing out the difference between day and night power loads.
The big problem with plug-ins right now is simply the battery. A hybrid battery is relatively small and inexpensive. It doesn't hold much of a charge, because it doesn't have to. Its main function is to be able to store the energy from regenerative braking and allow the car to shut off the gas engine at idle.
A plug-in battery needs to be significantly larger to hold enough energy to give the vehicle significant range. That adds weight, reduces cargo volume, and most especially it increases cost. We need some improvements in battery technology to bring the costs down and the energy density up. Then plug-ins will experience the kind of breakthrough regular hybrids are seeing now.
Kelly @ May 16th 2006 1:25PM
One thing not yet mentioned is that the plug in hybrids can be configured to be used during the day to help out the power generation by supplying energy to the grid during peak hours.
Carole @ Nov 3rd 2006 3:31AM
For people wanting to know what the advantage of plugs-in is: it's solar! In the long-run, the most efficient way to generate power for your car is through solar panels. I love the idea of being able to plug directly into the sun, without a middle man, but the truth is, we'll need "the grid" to move energy around efficiently. This would go a long way toward offsetting worldwide energy demand.
mark yates @ Jul 30th 2007 7:22PM
"We need some improvements in battery technology to bring the costs down and the energy density up"
This is typical car maker excuses.
If you research the latest battery technology from companies such as a123 systems, valence, and nano phosphate you'll find they've got energy dense batteries already that can charge to 5000x (and to 90% capacity still) - so 250,000 miles on a 50mile electric range / daily charge. The batteries are small and don't take up so much space. With a plugin hybrid they could can combine with the standard engine when accelerating / cruising so you won't need as large a standard engine / and a smaller petrol tank. So the weight savings could be comparable with the lithium iron batteries. Remember a 100 litre tank weighs about 100kg when fuel. An engine is a heavy component of a car. Put in a 1.1 litre 70hp engine, a 35kg 100hp electric motor and light lithium iron batteries and a small fuel tank. The weight gain would be small.