Ghosn still says hybrids make bad business case...
...but Nissan's building them anyway. At the New York Auto Show, Nissan bigwig Carlos Ghosn indicated that he still believes hybrids are too expensive to build and noted concern that consumers don't want to pay more for them. Regardless, he also announced that a hybrid version of the Altima will go on sale sometime next year. Despite Ghosn's reluctance, the automaker is making the hybrid to meet California fuel economy regulations.
[Source: Reuters via Automotive News]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Scott Eaton 7:51PM (4/13/2006)
RE: demand and justified pricing.
There are two main types of hybrids: "efficiency and mileage" versus "power assist and very slight mileage boost". Prius is the former and Accord Hybrid is the latter.
While the "performance boost" sounds good, I think the bulk of the demand for hybrids is in the high mileage camp. Would you rather spend the (decreasing) premium for ~1 second off 0-60 times or would you rather get 20 additional MPG?
Perspective is everything here and worthy of debate and challenging these implementatio defaults.
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Anthony 9:19PM (4/13/2006)
Many of the Prius, Accord and Ford hybrid owners are now realizing that they spent more for a vehicle that promises a gas mileage that it cannot offer. With Ford now offering incentives on their product, it only shows that the hybrid hype is slowing down. Hopefully when the Altima hybrid arrives it will be able to offer what it promises at a price that makes sense.
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John 10:28PM (4/13/2006)
Mazda has that Hydrogen Renesis, Honda/Toyota with hybrids. Nissan... well...
Ghosn's a smart guy - he knows the only reason Nissan is using Toyota hybrid stuff on the VQ motors is because Nissan's going to be the Odd-Import-Out if it doesn't do *something* to show an initiative in alternative fuels or novel powertrains.
Americans only buy Hybrids for the social-status of driving around some wacky car that looks different than the rest. The Prius and Insight became symbols to be lorded over everybody as an ego thing. A hybrid Civic or Camry is just an expensive family car that you can't lord over anybody.
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Jacks 6:32AM (4/14/2006)
My neighbor bought a prius last year, thus far he has been disappointed with the mileage. According to him he paid $6,000 more than a comparable regular car. My wife and I rode in the back seat last week, I am 6'2" and I was cramped. He is wishing he had gone for the Camry instead, saying he will never recoup his initial investment.
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klaatu 8:02AM (4/14/2006)
Two blind men touching opposite ends of an elephant get an entirely different mental picture of what an elephant is.
In other words, whether a hybrid pays off depends upon your initial objectives.
Buying a mid-sized luxury V6 was my objective. I would have spent about $25,000 to include lots of luxuries, including leather interior.
I instead saw the 2004 Prius, started studying it, got excited about the fact that it was now mid-sized and offered about twice the mileage of similarly sized cars (we're talking interior and luggage space here).
So I eventually managed to get a new 2005 for about $24,000 with everything except Nav and Bluetooth (I can carry a map, or several, and already had a non-Bluetooth capable cell phone).
So - I traded an "impressive looking" (to whom? we're dreaming, folks, nobody cares about what we drive much) mid-sized luxury sedan with leather, for a futuristic car with even more bells & whistles & twice the mileage or better, lacking leather. (2006 Prius cars may be had with leather for those who don't even want to give that up).
So instead of 20-25 mpg, I'm getting 44 to 50 mpg overall. For me, the pay-off was immediate.
I didn't compare the Prius to a Corolla (dumb) or even a Camry. I had no desire to have either one, and the Corolla is a compact car, not a mid-sized.
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apollo322 8:37AM (4/14/2006)
"1. RE: demand and justified pricing.
There are two main types of hybrids: "efficiency and mileage" versus "power assist and very slight mileage boost". Prius is the former and Accord Hybrid is the latter.
While the "performance boost" sounds good, I think the bulk of the demand for hybrids is in the high mileage camp. Would you rather spend the (decreasing) premium for ~1 second off 0-60 times or would you rather get 20 additional MPG?
Perspective is everything here and worthy of debate and challenging these implementatio defaults."
Though they add some horsepower and can create true 4wd capability with electric motors to specific wheels, they are loust "performance" cars. The added weight and complexity make them less agile and more prone to trouble if you planned on driving them hard. As a performance car, there are a lot better options out there for the cost.
As a gas saving device I think they are even less efficient. Unless you live in a major city a lot of your driving time is spent traveling on a highway. Higher gearing (7 speed trannies), direct injection engines and cylinder deactivation while cruising at speed are much more cost effecient ways to tackle the same problem. Oh, and none requires lugging around 300-500 lbs of electric motors and batteries for those few times at a light.
Utilizing diesel engines and shedding weight is a much wiser and cost effective solution. In the next 15 years, as we change to cleaner diesel and begin to be able to buy the engines europeans are driving now, the hybrid will be exposed for what it is.
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Marcello Mastroianni 10:24AM (4/14/2006)
> Americans only buy Hybrids for the
> social-status of driving around
> some wacky car that looks different
> than the rest.
Well, what's wrong with that? It's the same reason we buy Corvettes and Rolls Royces, too!
It was made clear from the beginning that Hybrid owners probably wouldn't recoup the extra expense with fuel savings. So anyone who did any basic research before buying a hybrid shouldn't be disappointed in that regard.
The 2nd-gen Prius is cutting-edge technology, it's better for the environment than any other similar-sized vehicle out there, and I think it looks pretty cool. That justifies the extra cost for me.
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John 10:31AM (4/14/2006)
I think the analogy of the 2 blind men assumes that they are both very handicapped in their ability to take in lots of information - and two - that they are not able to realize that they are touching a 3D object which would require them to actually take some effort to investigate further.
Almost all research has shown that Prius drivers do not achieve anywhere near the spectacular economy levels touted by Toyota. But, you do realize some gas savings - but is the cost worth it? It requires so much more energy to produce a hybrid as opposed to a TDI Volkswagen or a Toyota Corolla. The amount of diesel fuel, acid, lightweight metal, etc that a Prius directly and indirctly consumes costs much more than the few barrels of gasoline you may save over the lifetime of the car.
The hybrid Camrys, Lexus, Civics, Accords, Escape, and soon, the Altima just indicate that people want a futuristic car that they can hold as an example of a brilliant decision by the car buyer. If the car buyer purposely remains blind and refuses to go out and touch more of their big elephant - they're using ignorance as a defense of their decision to just get a car that looks really interesting as a symbol of their eco-friendly beliefs... even if their good-intentioned beliefs are mislead.
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Merlin 10:25AM (4/19/2006)
I'm amazed at all the bitter carping about hybrid drivers "just trying to lord it over others because of their wacko-looking car and brilliant purchase decision." In LA they even get road-rage directed at them 'cause they can use the HOV lanes even with a single passenger. Freud would've called it "Prius-envy." They are not expensive at $20K. So buy one already. If more people drove them the total gasoline use of the USA would drop. My only complaint is that Toyota didn't use a diesel in the Prius. Yet?
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Jose 6:40AM (4/20/2006)
We bought a new Prius Hybrid 3/27/06 and are very happy with it. In a combination of highway (moderate hills)and city driving on our first three tank fill-ups we averaged 53 mpg, 51 mpg and 53 mpg.
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Lon Meader 5:20PM (4/20/2006)
Yes you pay more for Hybrids, but don't discount it's environmental impact with more friendly emmisions. I have three kids who will be living on this Earth for some time to come.
Also , I would wrather see the Auto makers and employees get my money than the gready oil companies.
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