New SAE testing methods admonish Toyota, Honda to hold their horses
The dust
continues to settle from the introduction of new horsepower testing standards by the Society of Automotive Engineers,
and Japanese automakers are finding a few less ponies in their stables. It turns out that the new testing procedures
have resulted in lower horsepower ratings for a number of Toyota and Honda models, while American carmakers have gone
largely unaffected.
Hardest-hit Toyota model is its 2006 Camry (shown) with the 3.3-liter V6 option, which
sees its horsepower rating drop from 210 to 190 hp.
Previous rating procedures were vague in many areas,
allowing automakers a great deal of latitude in testing methodologies-- which type of fuel and oil were used, which
components and accessories were running during testing, etc. In tightening the rating procedures, the SAE has adopted
methods commonly used by U.S. manufacturers. As a consequence, vehicles produced by the Big Three remain largely
unaffected by the change.
Of course, acceleration tests are always the best indicator of a vehicle's
straight-line performance, and those datasets remained unchanged. An awful lot of brochures may have to be reprinted,
though.
[Source: The Detroit News]
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Pat 8:43PM (6/01/2008)
2002 Honda Integra Type-R
Engine : 4-cylinder, DOHC, front engine FWD
Displacement : 1,998 cc (2.0L)
Valve : 16 valves, 4 valves per cylinder
Horsepower : 220 hp @ 7000 rpm
Thats an amazing 110hp/Litre, no other American, European, or Japanese automakers have ever came close to this power/displacement ratio, that was until the Mazda RX-8 1.3L rotary engine appeared with 237hp an even more amazing 182.30hp/L, but Honda is still the highest piston engine.
Japanese automakers manufacture higher output, more effecient,
and more reliable engines.
My .02
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Carlos 5:06PM (3/14/2006)
This was news a few months ago, and nothing's changed since then. And it's the same source reporting it as it was last time (the DetNews). Ran out of stuff to report?
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Gurney 5:11PM (3/14/2006)
If SAE had any leadership they would be leading the industry and not following it. Toyota and Honda wouldn't ignore a society with any street credibility in the industry. SAE is US-focused only.
Sure, SAE has some very visible standards, but how many of them have been developed in the past 10 years? Somebody needs to form a worldwide standards organization that everybody can respect and follow.
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Casey Rowe 5:20PM (3/14/2006)
Hmm...so let's see here. This DETROIT-based publication rehashes an old dispute after the Ford Fusion gets reamed in side-impact testing and Consumer Reports awards its top picks to all Japanese models, and the 2007 Toyota Camry has just hit showrooms.
How desperate and pathetic.
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Kyle 5:31PM (3/14/2006)
Yeah, I don't understand...this is -really- old news, and there is a whole new Camry out.
What's the deal?
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bent 5:35PM (3/14/2006)
So it looks like some of the Japenese big hitters may have less punch by a NA-based standard. This is certainly good news for the struggling domestics.
I'd roll down the window in my rented Taurus or Lumina to trumpet the news to anyone who'll hear but the button doesn't work again. Crap.
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Paul 5:35PM (3/14/2006)
its a vast anti asian auto conspiracy
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Tiger 5:38PM (3/14/2006)
At least Toyota and Honda are retesting their engines to comply with the new rating. It's not required.
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Christian J 5:46PM (3/14/2006)
Fusion makes 221 hp with only 3.0L. Some much for japanese technology and efficiency. Complete lies. That's still higher output that last years BMW 330ci (215hp). This will be the same lame engine in the new Camry, nice work.
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Strom 5:57PM (3/14/2006)
#8 -
Yeah, but the 330 goes 0-60 in under 6 seconds. BMW seems to always underrate their engines.
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Brandon 6:08PM (3/14/2006)
"Of course, acceleration tests are always the best indicator of a vehicle's straight-line performance, and those datasets remained unchanged. An awful lot of brochures may have to be reprinted, though."
Most brochures don't say 0 to 60 times... only a select few do. Considering only about 10% of Japanese car models are sports cars, that means only a very small amount even have that info in them. You think the brochure for my beater (2002 Corolla) has the 0-60 time? It's something ridiculous like 10.9 seconds... And it isn't in the brochure.
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GrowUp 6:12PM (3/14/2006)
When this happened to Hyundai a few years ago, they sent all owners a letter that said:
"As an expression of goodwill and an attempt to demonstrate how important Hyundai customers are to us, we are offering certain enhancements to those individuals whose model's horsepower ratings were misprinted by more than four percent. For the 2000 model year forward we offer a choice of three warranty-enhancement options or, for 1999 model year and earlier vehicles, five-year roadside assistance coverage."
Let's see if Honda & Toyota have the guts and respect for their customers to make such a move.
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Aki 6:46PM (3/14/2006)
"Fusion makes 221 hp with only 3.0L. Some much for japanese technology and efficiency. Complete lies."
Erm, Honda S2000 is 2.2L and does 237 SAE HP. Do some homework before spatting out stuff.
And that's after the adjusted rating. Ratings adjusted long ago. Why is this new news? But yeah, complete lies. Poor GM and Ford get screwed entirely because of PR and perception.
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bernie 6:49PM (3/14/2006)
This would seem to be a golden opportunity for a global organization like ISO to spot check, monitor and verify all manufacturer claims.
SAE has a predominantly Detroit-based focus and has absolutely zero ability to enforce or verify its own standards.
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Carlos 6:58PM (3/14/2006)
Hyundai's case (Mazda's done it too, more than once) wasn't the same as this. In their case, they advertised horsepower numbers that you couldn't get using the standards of the time. They weren't using loopholes in the rules; they were operating outside the rules (either through cheating or through error).
Honda and Toyota had advertised hp numbers that you COULD get using the former SAE standard. The standards allowed the disconnecting of accessories and stuff like that. Honda and Toyota generally took advantage of those rules - partly to get a bigger number, and partly because the number you end up with is closer to the "true" power of the engine in isolation. Their numbers were closer to "power at the crankshaft."
An engine's power can vary quite a bit based on the circumstances (temperature, accessories, lubrication, intake/exhaust, etc). There's no one way to measure it. Unfortunately, the former SAE rules also had no one way to test it, so direct comparisons didn't always work.
I think power should be measured at the wheels. But then you still need standards for the gear, airflow over the engine...
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Mike 7:07PM (3/14/2006)
Number 8 is wrong. The 2001-2005 330 made 225hp not 215. The 2006 3.0L makes 255 in the 330 which is more than the 250hp Ford's new 3.5L makes. In the 325 there is a detuned 3.0L that make 215hp.
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Lucas 7:27PM (3/14/2006)
"Fusion makes 221 hp with only 3.0L. Some much for japanese technology and efficiency. Complete lies."
Oh, what an achievement. In 1990 the Nissan 300ZX made 222hp naturally aspirated from a 3.0L V6. That same year the forebearer of that wonderful Ford 3.0L paperweight you love so much made 140hp in the Taurus. Now, you could get the SHO with a 220hp 3.0L V6, but it wasn't made by Ford. Do you know who made it? That's right, "japanese technology and efficiency" courtesy of Yamaha.
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Scott Eaton 7:50PM (3/14/2006)
#10: "Most brochures don't say 0 to 60 times... only a select few do. Considering only about 10% of Japanese car models..."
I believe he was referring to the horsepower ratings, which are included in the brochures
(See Mazda RX-8 history for example.) :-)
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Brian W 8:38PM (3/14/2006)
Japanese companies lying about HP and MPG, what's new?
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Richard Warren 9:34PM (3/14/2006)
In the end who cares, anyone old enough to remember the old horespower rating drop in the US? When they started using net horsepower.
What I'd rather see is actual horsepower ratings at the drive wheels and tested 0 to 30 0 to 60 35 to 65 45 to 70, those figures might actually mean a lot more.
Get off the SAE/Domestic rant, guys, truth is they all lie and each and every engine will be slightly different, some higher some lower.
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