Filed under: Trends, Hybrids/Alternative
GM losing battle against green image of "Toyohonda"
by John Neff on Feb 16th 2006 at 8:30AM 
A rather
lengthy editorial posted on GM Inside
News by a member named “Ming” suggests that General Motors is unable to win an image battle with
“Toyohonda” in the green sector because it insists on pumping its resources into large, inefficient and
expensive SUVs rather than smaller, economical, and less expensive passenger cars. According to Ming, the General’s efforts to raise the mileage of its SUV lineup, while appreciated, will do little to improve its ecological image in the face of Toyota and Honda’s green war machine. GM’s offering of DoD, mild hybrid and FlexFuel technology isn’t necessarily targeted at the thrifty among us, either, which has Ming wondering why the Aveo is still sold with an engine that dates back to the 1990’s Daewoo Lanos.
Would the public have a better perception of GM if it offered a truly competitive small car, possibly even a full-on hybrid like the Prius? Though such vehicles typically earn a smaller profit per unit than a truck or SUV, it's increasingly apparent they play a very significant role in how an automaker is perceived by the public.
[Thanks Jennifer for the tip!]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Shawn 8:44AM (2/16/2006)
John Neff, so now we're posting the editorials of some unknown blogger? I'm not pro-GM, but come on, you don't have to post all the anti-GM rantings on the internet.
Surely there's actual automotive news out there.
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Gardiner Westbound 8:58AM (2/16/2006)
The affirmative aura surrounding hybrids will end when the public realizes they provide few environmental benefits and no financial advantage.
Half of all new cars sold in Europe are diesel. Modern common-rail diesels are clean and fuel efficient. Regardless, the U.S. car buyer still thinks of diesels as dirty, noisy, underpowered and unreliable. Bob Lutz says it's GM's fault, "We did some diesel engines about 20-years ago that were an absolute disgrace, and the American public has never forgotten it." http://www.autoblog.com/2006/02/03/diesels-a-tough-sell-in-the-u-s-despite-advantages/
GM has a potentially profitable opportunity to establish a positive reputation by bringing modern, efficient diesels to the domestic market.
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Source1 9:04AM (2/16/2006)
I went on a search for a new car for my daughter. I decided I would objectively check out what the Americans had to toffer. I wanted high feature content with safety features being important, great warranty and overall val....and of course fuel efficiency, as my daughter is going to college in Canada where gas can hit nearly $6.50/gallon at high-times. The best deal out there was nothing from the Americans. The Aveo, nah a Daewoo is nothing I want her in. Nothing from Ford ever interests me . I settled on either a Honda Fit, which isn't here yet, a Toyota Yaris or Corolla, but I/She hates the center stack instrumentation and the Corolla equipped like she wants was $18k. We also, of course looked at a Hyundai Accent/Hyundai Elantra. We decided on an Elantra GT because she liked the leather, moonroof, ABS,Traction, 4 -wheel discs and near 30mpg overall. The car has tons or cargo room as a hatch and has power everything. We got numbers and can walk away with one for around $15k out-the-door? This includes 5 year unlimited mileage roadside (even in Canada) so if she punctures a tire, runs out of gas or locks keys in car, they will come out and take care of it. Not to mention if she did break down away from home on the highway they would put her up in a hotel, give her food until the car is fixed. Unbelieveable!!! I gave GM a chance and there was literally nothing to even consider. The comparable Cobalt, even tho it was a decent offering, was nearly $17k and had no roadside warranty near Hyundais. And the GM guy tried to tell me that I would need that Hyundai warranty cuz they 'break down all the time'. I showed him the Consumer Reports recommendation and he just changed the subject. I felt sorry for him cuz he knew he was outgunned. The Cobalt also had an outdated, rear, non-independant beam set-up that doesn't inspire confidence. I thot everyone had independant suspensions now. Anyway, now I just have to find an Elantra GT cuz they are in short supply. Guess I am not the only one buying a Hyundai.
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GM-man 9:05AM (2/16/2006)
Well, our vehicles may not be as efficient as Toyota or Honda, but at least our quality is not as good.
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Devin 9:07AM (2/16/2006)
First of all, GM has dug it's own grave on the way people percieve them. Not only do people believe that they make cars that do not get good gas milage, but they also believe GM still has quality control issues because of the earlier 1980s and 1990s. None of these claims are actually true anymore, especially when JD Power showed that some GM brands are actually better in quality, and GM has many cars that recieve over 30 mpg. It's all about perception now.
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Michael Karesh 9:19AM (2/16/2006)
#1 commenter -- Ming is hardly anti-GM; like other active staffers at GMI, he is generally pro-GM, but this doesn't mean that everything he says about the company must be positive.
#4 commenter -- it's not just a matter of perceptions. J.D. Power studies only cover two data points, and it's not always clear what they measure. My research at http://www.truedelta.com will report trips to the shop throughout a car's life. It will be interesting to see how everyone measures up. I'm expecting smaller differences than I suspect the general public would, but will be surprised if there is no difference.
As for the editorial, I'd love to see the results from some actual research that indicate the reasons people don't consider GM cars. Perceived fuel economy? Perceived quality? Styling? Past experience?
Without this research, everyone's just guessing, and probably not guessing well.
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Stephen J 9:27AM (2/16/2006)
#3: You state: "I decided I would objectively check out what the Americans had to to offer..."
You follow that statement with, "Nothing from Ford ever interests me."
Out of curiosity, I built a Ford Focus online and realized that it can also be equipped with leather, moonroof, traction control, ABS, and side airbags for $15,600 "out the door". It gets 27-34MPG and also has 24 hr roadside assistance. True, the warranty is only 3yr/36,000 mi., but I still think that if you were truly "objectively checking out what the Americans have to offer", this car would have been on your shopping list.
And yes, the Focus has 4 wheel independent suspension. ;)
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klaatu 9:28AM (2/16/2006)
Tomorrow, the 17th, is "trip-wire" day for Delphi, and the "bomb" is sitting right underneath that big G - M.
Not to mention the U - A - W
If the UAW don't drop that trip wire, there probably isn't going to ever be a chance for GM to develop a Prius-like full-hybrid.
Here's what GM'ers need to be saying about now. "I hear the band still playing, but the lights on the ship are flickering and those lifeboats are all gone. Tilting, tilting, dang isn't that water getting closer? Brrrr...... "
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RossL 9:29AM (2/16/2006)
Source1 -
Who the heck told you that gas sells for as much as $6.50/gallon in Canada?
Right now, I can fill up for C$0.76 per litre. A U.S. gallon is 3.785 litres, so that's C$2.87 per gallon. The Canadian dollar is now worth 86 cents (U.S.). All of which means that the gasoline I'm buying here in Ottawa is $2.49 U.S. per U.S. gallon.
Over the past two or three years, aside from the brief panic-driven price spike after Katrina, the price of gas where I live has tended to hover between about $2.40 and $3.25 U.S. per gallon. Whoever gave you that $6.50 number is smoking something funny.
(By the way, it's just my opinion, but the Hyundai Elantra is plain ugly. Spend a bit more, perhaps forego the leather, and buy a Civic or a Mazda3. You and your daughter will be glad you did.)
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Shawn 9:46AM (2/16/2006)
#6, I didn't say Ming is pro- or anti-GM. I simply think it is ridiculous to re-blog the post of some random person that was posted on another blog. That would be like you reposting the message of some anti-Toyota rambling that was posted on some other site. Silly isn't it?
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Anne 10:24AM (2/16/2006)
GM builds big trucks and SUVs because that's what customers buy! You can talk perception and philosophy and what the "right thing" to do is, but bottom line, GM and all the other car companies are in business. Businesses with shareholders need to make money. Consumers vote with their wallets, and they vote overwhelmingly in the US for Trucks and SUVs. By a LARGE margin.
It's also interesting that Ming doesn't mention that Toyotoa has introduced more large, "gas-guzzlers" for volume production in the last few years than any other manufacturer, and the fact that their CAFE numbers (please don't blog about whether CAFE is right or wrong, it's the current measurement) have gone up because of the volume models they are producing consume more gas. Toyota has just done a better job pushing the "green" image of the hybrids they sell and good for them. Consumers should be smart enough to figure out that hybrids are a very small percentage of Toyoya's sales. And why do they push hybrids in the U.S.? Because they can't compete on the diesel side in Europe, and don't want to see diesels catch on in the US as an "alternative energy" vehicle.
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AJ 10:40AM (2/16/2006)
source1, I would have got her a Saturn. That way when she hit something the car wouldn't dent and would just bounced off.
Just kidding, that Hyundia sounds like a good deal. I am still not sure about the Koreans yet, Consumer reports isn't the best at judging cars.
#6 I would have to say GM's biggest problem is previous experiences. I have never had a bad GM but I hear plenty about others. When it comes to there modern cars, most say they don't like the looks. I think what GM needs is a few cars that get over 40mpg. They have alot of cars that get 30, and that is good, but that doesn't get any attention. If they build a car that gets 50-60mpgs, perception would change fast.
I saw GM sedan that got 80mpgs in a magazine. It was a big as an impala and the engine was in the back. It was a diesel. They said they wouldn't make it because the acceleration was way to slow. It was that car they promised the government they would build back in the seventies.
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Source1 10:43AM (2/16/2006)
Gas was selling in Halifax, NS, (where she will be attending college) this summer for $1.20 a litre and I have a receipt to prove it. That is nearly $6/gal US. (math is 1.20x3.785 x .24 exchange. I said at 'high-times', not today and if you think that you can get gas today in Halifax for .76/litre I suggest you check out these prices today http://www.halifaxgasprices.com/. Also, as summer approaches and as we continue to have 'troubles in teh middle-east' I am quite sure that gas is not going down even tho we are below $59/barrel. And as for a Ford Focus, well, I gave up on Ford after the umpteenth recall of the Focus (see consumeraffairs.com where you will see the Quality is Job#1 Blue Oval Edition) If they can't get that thing right in the R&D process, then they aren't getting it right enough to get my hard-earned money. They figure they can just do it cheaper by recalling it later. Well, I don't have time for that. And the only time I go to a dealer is to pick-up my new car so to go and spend time there to get my car fixed for recalls is not what I want to do.
As far as a Honda Civic and a Mazda 3..great cars but $20k for one comparable to an Elantra and no roadside assistance for a 18 year old who is concerned about everything but remember to put gas in the car or turn off the map lights just doesn't make sense to me.
Trust me, I have looked at the market and there is a reason Hyundai is outselling everyone import-wise but Toyo, Honda and Nissan.
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AJ 10:50AM (2/16/2006)
I agree with #11
I also think part of GM's image problem is they are the worlds largest producer of autos. They get most of the bad publicity for ruining our environment. If Toyota overtakes GM, then that will help their image because Toyota wikk get most of the bashing. I said "if" because you never know how things will go.
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Puff Chippy 11:03AM (2/16/2006)
"I wanted high feature content with safety features being important, great warranty and overall val....and of course fuel efficiency..."
I guess quality or reliability wasn't on that list if you bought a Hyundai. After seeing the last J.D. Powers data you can't get much worse than Hyundai.
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RossL 11:16AM (2/16/2006)
Source1 -
There's something wrong with your calculator. C$1.20 a litre is nowhere near $6/gallon - it's US$3.80 per U.S. gallon. The math is 1.2 x 3.785 x .85.
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Gardiner Westbound 11:18AM (2/16/2006)
Reading "Plastic Parts in GM Engines" will give you some idea why GM sales are down, and repeat customers are becoming an endangered species. http://consumeraffairs.com/automan/plastic.html
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JeremyBee 11:50AM (2/16/2006)
"The Cobalt also had an outdated, rear, non-independant beam set-up that doesn't inspire confidence. "
I love how a Torsion Beam Semi-Independent rear suspension is "outdated" technology for a Cobalt, but perfectly acceptable in the Corolla, Fit, and Yaris. A little research goes a long way. Yes *Ghasp* they all have "outdated technology" given your standards - even Toyota and Honda. Well, be glad you have an IRS in that Hyndai!
"I decided I would objectively check out what the Americans had to toffer. "
Given your research methods, I doubt that.
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Koba 12:21PM (2/16/2006)
The main thing killing GM's image when it comes to fuel efficiency (b/c I do know GM people who buy Hondas for the fuel efficiency!) is that their engines are not suited to their cars. GM has no offering that will compete with a corolla or civic. When either can be configured to get 40mpg on the highway (06 corolla manual, 06 civic auto), that ecotec is just outclassed. GM has no good comapct car, period. The MOST fuel efficient car in GM's lineup is a rebadged Toyota Matrix (yes, even better than that crapbox Aveo!!!), pitiful huh?
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Stephen J 12:28PM (2/16/2006)
"And as for a Ford Focus, well, I gave up on Ford after the umpteenth recall..."
Source1: You're not buying a used 2000-03 model. It is now 2006. The bugs have been worked out and if it matters to you, it is on Consumer Reports recommended list...
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