Beware of flood cars in the used market
The AutoMuse is kind enough to warn us of a potential flood of, um, flood-damaged cars in the used-car market. As she points out, a car has to receive a salvage title in Louisiana for its title to be "branded" as having suffered water damage. If the vehicle isn't declared a total loss, there is nothing forcing disclosure that it was in a flood. Also keep in mind that if the car isn't insured, then it probably won't be declared a loss if recovered from a flood. That's less likely with a late-model car, but those shopping for older cars, especially those that are on the less expensive side, need to beware. A hat tip goes out to The Auto Prophet, who suggests Carfax. While it may not be perfect at showing a vehicle's repair record (it's difficult to track non-insurance repairs), its registration history might tip off a buyer to potential problems.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Dave 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
I'm curious if there is some way one can go out and look specifically for flood cars? All the articles I've read seem to imply that the insurance rights them off as a loss and usually sells them at scrap value. I for one wouldn't mind buying a flooded corvette for pennies on the dollar and building a track car from it or just using the non-electrical bits which would likely be fine after a few days under water (I.E. a a low mileage LS1, 6 speed tranny, big ass brakes, etc...)
However all these articles are focused on how to avoid buying flood cars instead of telling us where to go if we *WANT* a flood damaged car.
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pedro 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
There are places that specialize in flood cars. There is one here in CT where I live: www.luxurycars.com
They don't say it anywhere on the website, but once you call they tell you the deal.
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theautoprophet 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Um, some of these cars will have spent WEEKS under water.
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theautoprophet 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Um, some of these cars will have spent WEEKS under water.
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Dave 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
#3
Weeks, Days. it's all the same. It's not like the engine has been running while it's underwater... An oil pump primer and a few flushes with some fresh dino juice and coolant it'd be good as new. Goodwrench crate LS1s cost a few thousand bucks, if that same money buys me an LS1 with a water damaged corvette still attached to it I'd be pretty damn happy...
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Robert Aitchison 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Things like this, and the ability to do title washing are among the top reasons (excuses) I have for paying the extra cash for new cars.
Yeah I know it loses 25% of it's value as soon as I drive it off the lot but I'm also reasonably assured of it's original value.
Of course I was burned before, buying a 2 year old car (in the days before Carfax), from a new car dealers used lot, not even for that great of a price and it turned out to have been wrecked (with frame damage). The car wouldn't hold an alingment and towards the end I was going through lower control arms every 3000 miles (ball joints failing).
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Phil L. 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Regarding using Carfax to find repair records: In my experience, *very* few car repairs are reported in a manner that Carfax can discover, whether it's paid for by insurance or not.
Want to prove it to yourself? Get a month-long subscription to Carfax and troll through eBay auctions that include VIN. I was so disgusted at how little information appeared in the reports (outside of registration dates, etc.), that I started searching for auctions that claimed a salvage title, just to make sure Carfax agreed with it (Carfax does a good job with salvage titles).
If you're expecting Carfax to be a reliable indicator of past collision or flood repair, you'll be disappointed.
#4:
If only repairing a flooded car were as easy as getting the drivetrain running again...
Yes, a car's major mechanical systems can survive a flood, be cleaned up, and used again. But think about everything else in a car:
- Any portion of the interior that isn't solid plastic will be junk after a week in sewage-soaked water. Carpet, seats, door panels...
- Imagine trying to clean and mud and muck out of an intrument cluster, let alone getting it to work again reliably.
- You can kiss the sound system goodbye, too. CD drives don't like mud; neither do speakers.
- Speaking of electronics: The engine block can survive a lot - but the computerized engine controller can't. It'd probably survive a few hours of water - but a few days will result in electronics that either won't work or can't be trusted to work reliably. Every switch, relay and solenoid will have been contaminated.
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theautoprophet 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Re: #7
What I meant about Carfax was not to buy any car that was registered in flooded states before the hurricane hit--not to try to check for flood damage titles.
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Rick 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Carfax is a nice marketing tool for dealers, and it can provide consumers some info...But it misses A LOT. A couple of years ago I ran a Carfax for all of my auction purchases, then one day one showed up in my service department for warranty work that Carfax had passed through as a clean title (2002 Yukon Denali)...It turned out the VIN didn't even exist to GM. The truck was traced back to the Russian Mafia importing stolen vehicles through Canada with false VIN plates. Things got very complicated but suffice it to say that Carfax is not perfect in spotting vehicles with questionable histories.
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Phil L. 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Re: #8 (well, it's #8 right now)
Sorry autoprophet, I was really responding to Dave (now #5). Your #4 wasn't there when I posted.
Yes, it's annoying: If a post is created - but not verified until later - it still gets inserted into the list based on when it was created, which can throw off messages numbers. Surely there's better comment software out there.
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Dave 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
All the things said about water damage are true, but it would still be cheaper to buy a flooded C6 corvette for 2-3 grand and be able to salvage many many thousands of dollars worth of parts from it than it would be to buy those parts seperately. Sure the elctronics would be toast and the interior trashed. But it'd still be a mechanically sound. Aftermarket fuel injection isn't brain science and carpets and fancy leather seats make cars slower not faster.... In conclusion, one could spend 50k+ on a C6 and drive it, or one could spend 3k on a flooded C6 and toss another 2-3 grand on some race seats, aftermarket injection, and a chassis wiring harness and have a FASTER LIGHTER track car for about 88% less money...
While this is not appealing to the average consumer (hence the *WARNING* style article) it looks very very very attractive to me as a automotive performance enthusiast...
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KT 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Rick,
The auction should have announced previous Canadian (if it had been converted to miles). Otherwise it would be a "grey market" vehicle and I'm sure you know to stay away from them. Most major auction chains will not sell grey market cars. Their internal systems should have caught the VIN discrepancy (unless it was a US VIN plate vs. Canadian).
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Pete 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Oh Please! There's one of these articles after every flood.
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Rick 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
It was a US VIN plate. The auction didn't have a clue. They (or their insurance company) did however refund the purchase price after the scam was uncovered. The FBI seized the vehicle. We gave the customer all of their money back so we only lost the original profit and some time and frustration.
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Rich 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Dave,
Call me crazy, but I was interested in doing the same thing as you for a project car I want to work on. I was planning it on being an older model, but I could do a new one! Anyway if you find anything out could you send me an email (rdubs9603@yahoo.com). And Pete, if there's an article like this after every flood, what's the verdict on how to find a deal?
Thanks all
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Scott Eaton 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
A new orleans car just sounds like a money pit to me. Also, it isn't just water, it's all the toxins in it - some of them may never be removed from a vehicle. It's possible to have something in the ventilation system (mold or similar) that gets you sick long afterwards.
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Thomas Keller 10:25PM (12/18/2005)
Check out this page on AutoExtra.com Regarding flooded vehicle tips. It could help during such a catastrophe.
http://www.autoextra.com/vehiclefloodtips
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