God... walmart needs to go into to auto business.

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sam, I don't get it.

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It would seem that this is just another example of the salary disparity between top management, and those who put the product out the door. But there is more. The other problem is that those with good paying jobs as those in the auto industry enjoy still don't "get it". The greed factor is on their doorstep as well. All of us want to get "our share" ahead of the other guy. The sad fact is that the auto manufacturing industry, ( as well as almost everything else, ) compete in what is becomming more and more a global market with salary levels much lower than those in this country. As usual, top management will "get theirs" while the working stiffs face the dreaded "downsizing". The whole problem will be solved when the Chinese auto industry takes off, we see the effects of energy price increases, the trade deficit finally breaks us, and and we go into depression. There, feel better?

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olderty: walmart has been incredibly successful in preventing any of their employees from unionizing.

rollie: ok, have fun with your doom and gloom.

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Look at Toyota and Honda employees, ask them if they want to be unionized.

Yeah ok rollie, take an economics class at the local community college, then we can discuss economics. Better get your GED first.

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I don't agree. There is a fundamental difference between a moron at walmart stocking shampoo and a person assembling a car. Granted, assembling a car and everything else peripheral to that is not exactly rocket science, but it still requires a higher level of intelligence than the average wal mart employee.

I also agree with the union about outsourcing. I guess that is understandable since my previous job in the tech field was outsourced a year ago. Our company was consistently rated #1 in all customer service areas and that was the one thing that separated us from our competitors. That still wasn't enough to save our jobs as the execs would rather flush the companies rep down the toilet along with everyone else and let an Indian deal with it. They took a short term rise rather than worry about the long term impact of customers leaving in frustration when their issue goes unresolved. If anyone truly thinks that outsourcing in any industry doesn't impact quality significantly, they are wrong.

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I too am in the tech industry. Out sourcing is a baaaadddd idea. I hate it with apassion. Personally, I think unions are a bad idea, but I dont want to go into that.

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The union wouldn't have a problem with the outsourcing, as long as the place being outsourced to was a union shop. They only have an issue if someone goes to work and collects a paycheck without paying union dues.

I wonder how many of the 700 only participated in the walkout only because it was cheaper & easier than replacing 4 slashed tires?

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Seems to me that unions are among the best reasons for an employer to outsource.

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Amen Iquack.
Im all for benefits, but some of these guys moan and groan about nothing.
Really ticks you off when they scream like little children, and daddy has company has to give them their pacifiers to keep the peace.
Pittiful.

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Yeah, Walmart is wonderful. If. If you enjoy substandard wages,little full-time employment, if you believe that the lawsuits won't ever come regarding the disparity of male and female workers wages.

Then there is the small fact that more workers are seeking state assistance at higher rates than any other business. Who pays for that? We do.

Of course the money made at your local Walmart slide through the local bank in a matter of hours, damn little stays in the community.

Why is Walmart so adamant about unions? Because they know they might actually have to pay some decent wages.

Then there is Walmarts payment policy to suppliers. Oh yes, that 90 day pay on their terms and their price and the requirment of the computer interface to their system, that they make you pay for.

Of course you do have the ambience of their stores. Rightttttttttt.

Of course the promises they make to communities always pay off too.

So to convince all of us that they are wonderful they put on the warm/fuzzy feelings commercials.

Yeah, they are just great alright.

Actually from reading the postings about the UAW, what I see is this.

There are a lot of you who just are jealous that someone is making a decent wage in this country. You think the union is handing someone money on a plate, those folks are working for a living and if you've never worked on an assembly line, you don't have much room to talk about how it is.

For those who complain about the unions stance on items like outsourcing, wait till you get outsourced.

Then you can work for that paragon of American business:

WalMart. Enjoy your new minimum wage job!

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I won't take the time to refute you entirely, but I will say this:

If the people who work at walmart had the skills to get better jobs, then they would. A lot of people who woerk at walmart don't speak english, or are old, are handicapped, or are teenagers. Idiots look at this and say, "Oh my god, walmart exploits our ignorant immigrants, our elderly, our disabled, and our children! Whatever are we to do?!" But the fact is, nobody else is hiring these people. Ask a 70 year old man who doesnt have any office skills, maybe he worked in a factory all his life, how easy it is to find a job.

As for suppliers, a walmart supplier is getting the privelege to sell products at the largest retailer in the world. Walmart didnt get that big by pussyfooting around, letting suppliers take their time or dictate their price. Walmart has the most efficient distribution network in the world. They have a server system that tracks petabytes of data, looking for buying trends by demographics, geographics, and weather.

You dont grasp the economic basics. Yeah, walmart might not spend a lot of money in a community where they have a store. But allowing people in the community to save money at walmart is the same thing as paying out higher wages. Items at walmart can cost 40% or more less than at competing stores. Yeah, a few mom and pops go out of business. In the mean time, every family in the community saves hundreds of dollars a month in basic costs. Thats money that can be spent anywhere, like on medicine, education for their kids, whatever.

And I dont know how you can look at the UAW without disgust. Its simply a violent, racist organization. They coerce companies into paying people $40/hour or more plus benefits for low-scope, low-depth factory work, when there are millions of people in america that would do that work for $10/hour. But no, these people are "illegal immigrants", so somehow they're not human, and somehow their kids, even when born in america, "are stealing american jobs".

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Richard,
Yeah, many of us havent worked for a union.
But I know those who do, and not all unions are realisticly fair to the common folk, or even themselves.
What that means is that there are set standards that are ment to keep the union workforce happy and functional.
Making it fun to goto work so to speak.
Then there are the people that make 2-5 times more than most people see doing jobs that arent any harder in similar situations and fields.
Usually, union jobs tend to be easier due to the relaxed work enviorment, and enhanced view on safety.
Honestly, I worked for Agilent Technologies and you could say it was a type of "assemblyline", so I understand the general assemblyline enviorment.
We built "class 2" electronic test equipment systems rated just under military quality.
I was in the soldering division.
Agilent was a great job, paid decent for the area and treated us very fairly.
Although we werent union they certainly acted like a union!
What my complaint is with unions is that they do indeed bitch alot of being underpaid, overworked and jealous of the higher ups that get paid more than them and usually work the same or less and say they suddenly, "deserve more".
Its all internal stepping on one another because its "ok" to do so.
But I see a problem with unions that complain about "too rough" toilet paper in the can, not having a pizza party every week and a company picnic every 2 weeks.
I used to get these kind of things and couldnt understand it because I almost never saw personal treatment like that in my last several jobs.
Was a new experience.
What I didnt like was I felt lazy, fat and unproductive.
I liked my job, but I wanted to just do my job, and go home.
The typical day was fun and the days went by quickly.
I could have done without the "extras" and never bitched.
What I couldnt believe the people that worked there for 25 years were bitching about their jobs when i had worked in construction, mcdonalds, delivering pizza, grocery and a autoparts store before working at Agilent.
I couldnt believe how much better a work experience it was to work at Agilent!
I wasnt prepared to be so pampered!.
Its funny that Agilent wasnt union, but it sure seemed like one!
I told those 25 year veterans that they had no clue as to how good they had it.
Bitching and moaning (as I mentioned in my last post).. and that is why I feel union people have it good, and should just be happy they even have the jobs they do.
I just get sick of the greed.

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sam: thanks.

Personally, I think unions all start with good intentions. Better wages, equality, blah, blah, blah... then greed replaces those intentions. Then you get the "how can I feed my family while only making $40+/hr??"

On another front: Far too many IT people working for one of the big 3 are contractors (like me). We all get our pay middled by our contract houses, then treated as 2nd class corp. citizens while at work. Many performing the same tasks as our fulltime-employee coworkers do. That's where/why unions get started. Am I proposing an IT union? No. Would I mind seeing one pop up? I'd probably join.

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#14 if an IT union popped up in your workplace you'd definitely join, because you'd be forced to whether you wanted to or not. If your place of emplyment becomes a "union shop" you have exactly 2 choices:
1. Join the union (or at least the "collective bargianing" agreement and pay them money.
2. Find a new job

Depending on where you live and the industry you work in you may have to move or change careers to avoid supporting the union bosses standard of living.

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Is $40/hour for really crappy manual labor really an unreasonable demand? Just asking neutrally here. I remember from one sociology class I took (just about the only useful thing a soc class can teach) that the average American worker gets compensated 10% for what he actually contributes to the company. If these guys are arguing against pay CUTS when execs are still getting millions to do their job -- poorly -- maybe they have a point.

Another question: why are workers at all the foreign car companies not interested in unionizing? Are they treated better?

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#14 I don't understand the economics of WalMart? I think my friend you need to look much deeper into the wonderfullness of the corporation.

Read up on Dr Ken Stone's studies of WalMart (nationally known professor of economics and business) and you might just come across a different view.

Just because WalMart hires "these" people does not make them a great company and that's hardly a reason for singing the praises of WalMart.

As to your comment of "a few mom & pop" business, I assume you live in or near a metro area. In small towns they decimate the individual businesses. I've seen it. While WalMart may save you money as you put it, the fact is damn little gets back into the community.

Then I always love the comment "If the people who work at walmart had the skills to get better jobs, then they would. A lot of people who woerk at walmart don't speak english, or are old, are handicapped, or are teenagers.

Good speak (1984) education will change all this. Care to ask the question how many "educated" people are under paid?

I've been union, non union, self employeed, all have their advantages and disadvantages.

Low depth low scope UAW jobs. My friend you need to work in assembly for a while.

Some unions do a better job, some do not, let's see, that's a lot like un unionized places to work, some are better, some are not. Some pay realistic wages, some do not.

While we are talking about overpaid workers, how about public utility workers, IT techs, yeah, it's such hard work, auto mechanics or better yet plumbers. Your toilet overflows on a Saturday evening you get the 200 dollar bill. Wow! Lets see, water flows down, pay days Friday, don't pick your nose with the hand that was just in the toilet.

Then we have the Japanese here no union, yet at home they are union. Maybe they figured it out, the average American worker is stupid. Our guys at home are union and look at these Yankee Dogs, too dumb to ask for a union and they believe us when we tell them it's great pay!

Amazing

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If Walmart were so horrible they'd go broke. The truth is that more people benefit from Walmart than are harmed by it.

Returning to the days before big-box retailing with small, inefficient merchants selling at high prices wouldn't be very popular now.

The types of store clerks who made relatively higher wages years ago at local stores aren't needed at Walmart, Target, etc.

Walmart and similar stores create distress for a few people but greater convenience and pricing for many more people. Isn't that the way it should be?

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#18 WalMart is just fine for the consumer (perhaps) making money is fine, however you miss the big picture, of employee relations, tax burden on yourself, do some study on WalMart employee's amounts taken from state assistance funds.

However, it's all beautiful and OK so long as the consumer has the perception of how truly wonderful they are because they sell on the cheap.

Using your thought process, GM must be the greatest car producer and company in the world ALA Employee pricing.

Lets talk about inefficient, small box businesses. In our community the local independent businesses put more back into our community than WalMart does, by nearly 100% our local mercahnts employ more people overall than WalMart does at higher wages by the way. Then there is property tax abatement. Our local merchants pay, under pressure from citizens to get a WalMart they got a tax break, no taxes for 5 years. They got a lowered price on the land. The state because of their size has new employee benefit incentives for them.

Other than selling on the cheap they have done very little.

Fast forward 10 years this store is not doing well and is considering closing it. Of course some of those "inefficient" local businesses have stayed and weathered. That's after decimating our town square and shopping center that was there.

Yep, they're great.

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"Other than selling on the cheap they have done very little."


That's what they're in business to do: sell on the cheap, and why they're the largest retailer. Walmart gives most shoppers what they want.

Smaller businesses have had to compete on service because they can't beat Walmart's prices and that's as it should be. Small businesses that don't adapt to change will close--it's an economic reality, like it or not.

It's true that Walmart has changed retailing and not all for the better, but on balance its effect has been favorable or it wouldn't be successful.

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