Ask Autoblog: How do I decide between a hybrid Accord or a gas-only Accord?
E pluribus unum. That's what is says on the back of the one dollar bill. Out of many, one. Did our founding
fathers truly understand the power of economics? Did they understand the democratic implications of capitalism? What
does this have to do with cars?
This question isn't about the Honda Insight versus Hummer H2. This is about reasonable choices. You wouldn't ask Autoblog a question about whether to decide to buy a hybrid vehicle if you were a card-carrying Greenpeace member, or an ardent believer in the endlessness of the oil supply. You ask, because you, like the millions, are a careful consumer whose need for safety, image, fun and comfort must be balanced according to your needs.
Why hybrids are for today
Hybrids are an intermediate solution to the problem of limited fossil fuels. Hydrogen, electric, fuel cell (right) and
biodiesel offer a better longer-term solution from imported petroleum. Hybrids just prolong the date in which gas runs
out. In effect, the more fuel efficient we become, the slower the rate of rising gas prices and ergo buys us time to
develop alternative fuels. Well all be using gas until an alternative technology ends up costing us less.
Let me take you back to grade school math where we learned how to find common denominators. Oh yeah, I remember, I
think. The common denominator helps you work with seemingly very different numbers. The common denominator in any car
purchase is the almighty dollar.
True costs of
ownership
A hybrid car like the Honda Accord (top) and Ford Escape (right) will cost around $3,000 more than the gas-only
variant. Take a real-world gas mileage estimate from a publication (not the EPA) and figure out how much you could
save. Then, take your depreciation, tax (congress currently provides a $1,000 tax break for some hybrids
bought in 2005, less in 2006.), interest on financing and maintenance into account (Edmunds is a great site for this)
and voila! Theres your basic financial equation. However, before you begin, let me share with you a surprising fact.
Based on numbers alone, the vast majority of consumers will never benefit financially from owning a hybrid.
The Toyota Prius, which has no gas-only counterpart, is really a technology showcase. A more practical Honda Insight,
if you will. Its a niche product with a quirky image thats enjoying temporary success due to its limited supply. The
Accord, Civic, Escape and the new Lexus RX400h will dwarf the sales of Priuses in the near future because they are
mainstream. Far more gallons of gas will be saved from these ho-hum models, then their weird cousin, the Prius.
Performance factor
If all else performance, safety, reliability, etc. were equal, not many people would buy a hybrid. But they are
not. The Escape and Accord and the RX400h (below) are expected to offer better performance, for less gas due to their
high-torque electric motor. As for safety, nothing suggests a hybrid is any more or less safe. And reliability? Were
just beginning to see hybrid cross the 100,000 mile threshold, and for now they show very few reports of problems.
Honda actually just sold their 100,000th hybrid.
So, its back to the numbers. Lets take the
hybrid Honda for example, if you drive 15,000 miles a year and gas averages $2.50 a gallon, you could save $391 a year
on fuel. Include the tax deduction, add additional interest for the extra $3,300 youll need to shell out, and in 5
years, you could still be $1,200 or more behind a normal Accord. So ask yourself. Is the additional performance, and
the earth-friendly glow of the digital dashboard worth the extra cash? You might decide yes, but certainly its not a
bad thing to say no.
Back to the dollar
It all makes a circle back to the dollar bill. E pluribus unum. Out of many, one. The many millions of
consumers will ultimately dictate the pace of innovation. The more we clamor for better performing, less expensive
hybrids, the more effort car companies will spend trying to deliver that car. Right now, the message is clear: most
people dont believe its worth the price, while a few do. And automakers certainly see this as a positive sign that
their next innovation just might pay off. Im waiting until I can find a hybrid that will perform better and
save me money in the end.
ASK AUTOBLOG: Were an answer in search of a problem. Ask Autoblog is your chance to stump us with your questions about the car buying process, whether it is new or used, private party or dealer, or comparisons like Whats right for me? A used Sherman Tank or a new Mini Cooper?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Glenn Laycock 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
http://www.drivingtelevision.com/segmentviewer.php?episode=thisweek&segment=2
Check this link out. A Canadian review of the new Accord. It gave them 30% less MPG then the Canadian Governments ratings.
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Christiaan 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
If you want a hybrid to make it look like you care about the environment then by all means get an Accord Hybrid. If you really want to help the environment get a 4 cyl Accord. Its EPA ratings are only 3MPG below the hybrid (I dont know "real world" numbers) and there isn't all the extra energy used to create and recycle the batteries from a hybrid.
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paul 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
same goes for the Prius. oh how can that be.
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Chris S 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Seriously, this hybrid hype has gone way too far. I'm not sure most people even know why they want a hybrid, other than because Hollywood douchebags like Dustin Hoffman have them. My mother-in-law wants a hybrid and she doesn't even know what they are! I quote, "I want one of those. Why do they call them hybrids?"
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Brian Sy 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Totally not worth it. If you haven't crunched the numbers, the Accord Hybrid commands a $3,290 premium over the EX V6 in exchange for about 4-5 MPG total. I got 26 MPG overall in my week with the Hybrid; Consumer Reports got even less (25). Its only real trick is Auto Stop, and that ain't much to hang your hat on. And am I the only one who thinks it's silly to build a hybrid powertrain around a V6 engine?
My take on two hybrids: http://www.automotive.com/2005/43/Honda/Accord/reviews/full-article/index.html
http://www.automotive.com/2005/43/Ford/Escape/reviews/full-article/index.html
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poulsbo 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
>>The Accord, Civic, Escape and the new Lexus RX400h will dwarf the sales of Priuses in the near future because they are mainstream.
Ben, Ben, Ben... not true. the Civic Hybrid has been around for as long as the Prius, and is not seeing the same kind of sales (nor getting the same press). Price/features/MPG are equivalent to that of the Prius, are they not? The other models remain to be seen, but for including the Civic, you get a big fat F.
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Jay 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Why does everyone always boil this down to a matter of pure economics?
If it was purely an economic situation, why would people pay the premium for a Lexus over a Toyota? Yes, there are differences, but it's not purely an economic decision.
People want to have pride in their new cars. How many BMW M3 buyers take advantage of the extra performance over a 330? Why does Ford sell a King Ranch, Harley-Davidson and Lariat F-series all at the top-end of "Truck Luxury"? Do residual values support this additional content?
Hybrid functionality is another reason for people to feel pride in their car. And, you feel like you actually get something for the money - even if it isn't guaranteed to pay itself back.
If you really want to get into the economic story, let's talk about hybrids as a hedge or insurance against $5/gallon gas. Or, let's talk about how chrome wheels or a high-end stereo pay themselves back in residual values over 3 years. Or, let's talk about the value of everything above and beyond a Kia/Yugo/Chery since we're only worried about the cost of getting from point A to point B over three years. Spare me.
If it all really boiled down to a purely economic decision, most everyone would buy a used car and avoid the hit in residual value just by driving it off the lot.
Until then, let's remember (especially on an automotive enthusiast site like this) that there's more to a car than what you paid for it and what you can get for it in a few years.
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HC_Earwicker 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
The problem with hybrids is that the real-world mileage is a lot less than the EPA figures. In contrast, the mileage of every non-hybrid that I have owned was within the EPA mileage range (usually closer to the lower end of the range). I rented a Prius for a few days and got around 40 mpg - which is significantly below the EPA figures. If the mileage falls within the EPA range then your break-even point is something like 7 years (give or take a little). If your mileage is significantly less than the EPA figures - your break-even point goes out past 10 years. From my point of view, I might consider a hybrid if my break-even point is less than 7-8 years, anything beyond that and it isn't economically worth it, from my point of view.
- HCE
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Brian Sy 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Because for most people, hybrids are mainly bought on the premise of saving money. Probably. There will be a lot of disappointed owners out there, though that's largely the EPA's fault.
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JG3 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
#2 is spot on.
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RR 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
In a view years it will be standard on most cars because gas prices will be $5+ /gallon.
PS. I like the additional horses that come with the Accord Hybrid. I think it's one of the best implementation out there. I'm waiting on the 07 Odyssey with Hybrid and VCM. That's when I'm going hybrid too.
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Chris S 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Yea! I saved $20 at the pump this month! Of course, my car payment is $60 higher... I'm so smart I could just puke.
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j.d. 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Number One reason (imo) for buying a Hybrid:
RANGE!
I can get further before having to refill the tank. That has got to be worth something in terms of convenience and efficiency if not cost-savings.
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poulsbo 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Jay - amen.
HC_Earwicker - where were you driving the Prius? The people who will see the most benefit are ones who do a lot of city driving, or are stuck in traffic (same concept - stop & go). If you drive hard, and do a lot of highway driving, a hybrid will probably not be of much value to you, no.
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Chris S 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Oh my god! $5/gallon gas? I better go out and buy as many hybrids as I can, since they don't consume any gas at all. They only run on electricity and a smug sense of self-satisfaction.
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Ben Huh 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Jay,
People pay more for an M3 or a King Ranch because it's something different than the original model in terms of performance or luxury or utility or etc. In this comparison, we're talking about comparing the Accord vs. hybrid Accord where the only real differences are fuel efficiency and some hp boost, just as Brian Sy states. So that's why in THIS comparison, it's about the economy. Chrome wheels and stereos are personal decisions based on where you want to spend your money. If you want to spend $1200 over 5 years on 15 extra hp and a little self-image boost on the hybrid Accord, be my guest, it's your money. But when you're talking about a car touted for its fuel economy, we'll talk economics.
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iBran 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
I've said it before, and it still holds true. I know several people with Hybrid vehicles -- a Honda Insight, 2 Honda Civics, a Ford Escape, and a Toyota Prius -- and not a single person bought them to save money. Their primary motive was LOWER EMISSIONS. The second factor for them was USING LESS GAS (that's right folks, gas consumption is not proportionally related to emissions!). Only 2 of my friends have bragged about the MPG benefit, since they rarely get more than 5MPG above my standard Civic, which gets 36MPG on average.
I firmly believe that like my friends, "saving money" is hardly on the minds of Hybrid buyers.
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Fred D. 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Jay - re: "Why does everyone always boil this down to a matter of pure economics?"
There's more to the economic aspect than most people consider. If one chooses a BMW 330 over a 325, the buyer gets improved performance for his $4,000 extra. But beyond that, there is no additional financial risk. A tranny rebuild for a 330 is gonna cost the same as a 325.
When one chooses an Accord Hybrid over a conventional Accord V6, there is an ENORMOUS financial risk. On the Toyota Prius, there are $15,000 worth of components related to the hybrid system alone. This includes things like $5,000 batteries, controllers, generators, etc. I'm sure the Accord Hybrid has similarly priced components.
I'd only buy a hybrid if you plan on getting rid of it before the warranty ends.
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kag 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
Here's what I want to know: If you took a regular Civic, and swapped over all the components from the hybrid that improve the mileage (lighter weight components, aerodynamic aids, low rolling resistance tires, etc...) and left the powertrain alone, how much difference in fuel economy would there be? I'm betting it would be pretty damn close to the hybrid.
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Carlos Harris 12:29AM (12/19/2005)
I wonder what is the life of the batteries in a Hybrid, and what are replacement costs??? I drive a Honda HX coupe, 2004, and am well satisfied with it. No need or future for a hybrid here. I'll wait for fuel cells, or bio-diesels.
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