Filed under: Car Buying
Lutz's choice: Kill Pontiac or Buick?
Reuters is
reporting that Bob Lutz made statements today that GM would consider killing one of its weaker divisions if they
don't turn around in the foreseeable future. The news is both shocking and expected. The two long-rumored choices
are Pontiac and Buick the story says. However, I have a better idea. One division has shown lackluster styling,
models and basically zero potential. I say kill Chevrolet. Of course they can't do that, but if you take a look at
the models coming out, Pontiac has the best line-up with Solstice and the G6 coupe/convertible. What does Chevy
have? The Equinox is rebadged for Pontiac already in the Torrent. The Malibu is horribly ugly. Impala and Monte
Carlo are poor refreshenings and outdated. Only the trucks would be hard to replace, yet there are GMC versions of
those. What exactly is Chevy offering? My bet would be Buick, even after good work on the LaCrosse and Lucerne as
the one to go. Senior citizens that believe in the brand are rapidly turning to aging baby boomers that have no
desire for Buicks and want luxury cars instead. Or they can get a rebadged product from the competition called
Mercury. I'm still in shock that Lutz called these "damaged brands." Who broke them? Will anyone fix them? Instead
it seems GM is happy to put one to sleep?
Thanks to Genghis for pointing us to the story.
_opt_thumbnail.jpg)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
KIVERS 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
In my very non-expert opinion, GM needs to kills off more than one division. The only way to keep that many seperate divisions is to have a variety of product spread among them. Taking one product and re-badging it to 3 other brands does nothing but cheapin the product. If I buy a Cadillac I want a Cadillac, not a Chevy with a nice interior. If I buy a pontiac, give me a pontiac, not a Chevy and a Saturn. I really think that some of GM's new cars are really nice, but the re-badging just cheapens it.
Reply
avixe 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
It may simply be that GM needs to define each brand. I have a lot of trouble figuring out what a Chevy is that a Saturn and Pontiac isn't, what a Buick is that a Cadillac isn't, and what a GMC .. is.
Perhaps they simply need to manage their brands a bit better. Make them individually distinct.
Reply
Ryan 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
As nice as killing off Chevy sounds... the deal is that even with the crappiest products alive they would still be able to sell them BECAUSE they are Chevys. So really, it's irrelevant that you and I think the Malibu is heinous and was from the moment it dropped. If it has a bow tie on it, it's still doing better than any G6 in today's market. Customer's are less inclined to care about a products quality over label, especially among car buyers, AND as odd as it may sound, there are enough Americans who actually take great pride in owning and driving a Chevy. I'll give NASCAR the credit for that one though...
Also, I just wanted to drop a personal example: I sold a '91 Chevy Cavalier Z24 with 120K miles. I got more phone calls in 3 days from eager and excited shoppers truly "desiring" this vehicle... On the other hand, I sold a '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX with all the right desireables, and didn't get anywhere near the same enthusiasm from shoppers. Instead I got people asking all the right questions... Timing belt, turbo, syncros, etc.
A majority of Chevrolet owners may not be "car people" but they do know exactly what they want, and they will continue to purchase Chevrolets only.
Reply
Ryan 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
As nice as killing off Chevy sounds... the deal is that even with the crappiest products alive they would still be able to sell them BECAUSE they are Chevys. So really, it's irrelevant that you and I think the Malibu is heinous and was from the moment it dropped. If it has a bow tie on it, it's still doing better than any G6 in today's market. Customer's are less inclined to care about a products quality over label, especially among car buyers, AND as odd as it may sound, there are enough Americans who actually take great pride in owning and driving a Chevy. I'll give NASCAR the credit for that one though...
Also, I just wanted to drop a personal example: I sold a '91 Chevy Cavalier Z24 with 120K miles. I got more phone calls in 3 days from eager and excited shoppers truly "desiring" this vehicle... On the other hand, I sold a '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX with all the right desireables, and didn't get anywhere near the same enthusiasm from shoppers. Instead I got people asking all the right questions... Timing belt, turbo, syncros, etc.
A majority of Chevrolet owners may not be "car people" but they do know exactly what they want, and they will continue to purchase Chevrolets only.
Reply
Joel 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
My understanding is that the Chevrolet Impala is the number one selling GM car.
Reply
chris 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Saturn has one last chance with the new Aura and Sky.
Since it's inception, the brand meant to go head to head with the Japanese competition has been a drag on GM while being blindly heralded as a benchmark for manufacturing, HR, etc.
Unless Saturn actually starts making a profit, they're gone...
Reply
starlightmica 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Buick is at intersection of aging buyers and declining sales, an awful situation to be in. I'm not sure Pontiac is doing that much better, though. I'm glad I'm not Wagoner or Lutz.
Did renaming the Grand Am and Century/Regal harm sales at all, like the Windstar -> Freestar resulting in buyers going elsewhere because they thought the vehicle was discontinued and not replaced?
Reply
Tim UF 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
one car will keep the chevrolet brand around: Corvette.
Reply
David S 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
I think GM made the wrong decision a few years back when they axed Oldsmobile over Buick. They both target a similar range of older buyers, but Oldsmobile at least had some reach to the younger crowd with the Alero and Intrigue. However, I think these came too late to save the old brand.
Here's how I picture their current brands.
Low end: Chevrolet, Saturn
Mid Range: Buick, Pontiac (Oldsmobile - dead)
High End: Cadillac, GMC, Hummer, Saab
I don't think they can afford to kill off the Chevy brand name, but they could "reinvent" it in the spirit of Cadillac. Cadillac is doing a better job of moving their target age lower, those in mid-life crisis as apposed to end-of-life crisis. They should sell off Saab, and they would both be better off.
One last idea, create an actual demand for the product. Lose the incentives and actually sell whats on the lots. If this means cutting back production, so be it. The G6 had demand after the whole Oprah thing, but now they're kicking in with the incentives. You don't see many imports or high demand cars such as the Mustang with incentives on them. Then again, what would GM advertise on commercials, their lovely plastic interiors?
Reply
Whydrive 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Chevy has the Corvette, which in my opinion, is a great car but wouldn't fit into any other division. Pontiac Corvette? I'd imagine a lot of Corvette owners would spin in their graves if that happens. Or maybe I read too much into the Camaro vs. Firebird wars back in the 80s.
I definitely think the "improvements" they're making to Buick lineup should be extended to every other division (making cars quieter, better fit and finish, etc.). Actually, I think the new Buick lineup (referring to Lacrosse and Lucerne) can fit nicely into the Chevrolet lineup, as Chevrolet would have a complete lineup all the way up to the flagship Corvette.
Reply
Rob Emslie 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Why does everyone think it's an American brand? I think it's very likely that both Saab and Vauxhaul will be killed off in the next couple of years.
Also, why bother with Izuzu selling non-commercial vehicles in this market? Not enough people buy them to make any kind of business model out of.
Reply
Steve Parker 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Why have the Equinox AND a Pontiac version? Why have the SKY and a PONTIAC version? Just WHAT is the LaCrosse? I road tested one and the trim on the C-pillar came off in my hand! GM has got to regroup, be happy with 20% market share and deal with THAT.
Reply
Mustang 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
haha, this is payback for the decades (70s - 80s) of arrgoantly force feeding us with crap...rebadging one chassis into 6 brands... sure they got away with it then but today's buyers are more savvy and know everything so....
good luck GM, keep rebadging subarus and chevys as SAABs, and Holdens as GTOs... your hyped out G6 with $3500 incentives???... keep building 12 MPG SUVs... and destroy the only car people really want...EV1...GM is a joke.
Reply
Tom 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
If someone was to ask me what is the first thing I think of when I hear the word "Buick", I would have to say "Old people in Florida".
"Pontiac" makes me think of cheap plastic body moldings and fake scoops.
GM should probably retire both names and start with a clean slate. A new brand with two or three cars that truly hit the bull's-eye. It's easier to make a new reputation than to change an old one.
Reply
Kevin Anderson 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Kill off Buick. Let the senior citizens who drive them know that, like them, the Buick cars they drive will soon be extinct. As far as Chevy goes, I love their Trucks and Tahoe/Suburban SUVs - everything else they have to offer under the Chevy brand is CRAP.
Now that I've shocked you, I want to say that I was only kidding about the senior citizen comment, and I don't see very many Buicks these days.
Kill two out of the three: Buick, Pontiac, Cows.
Reply
mick 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
could anything really save buick? i mean, c'mon, the name is so burnished with the funk of old age, that i can't see it changing. i think that moving saturn up market to take the place of olds/buick is the way to go. so many brands though, makes the head spin: chevy/pontiac/gmc/buick/cadillac/saturn/hummer/saab/vauxhall/opel/daewoo
plus all the other partnerships/partial ownships that gm has with suzuki/subaru/isuzu
gack...all of these brands can't last! why does gm need all of them? i mean really? if they could just simmer all of this stuff down and really concentrate on a core group of brands.
Reply
Tim 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
While I agree with the Buick sentiments, we do have to keep in mind what "Cadillac" meant to us a scant ten years ago. Giant luxury barges, lazily swaying around corners... now it's edgy design and that ubiquitous rock song.
GM can turn their divisions around, but, like Cadillac, they must have a clear, distinct purpose that the general public understands. Pontiac as the excitement division? Yeah, Sunfire... whoo! Based on the machinations over at Saturn, aka the American Opel, I don't think GM has room for two "excitement" divisions. I'd imagine Lutz would kill Pontiac.
As for Chevy's popularity, I tag that onto the Red State mentality. Those who equate patriotism with subpar engineering and poor build quality... I'll never understand it.
Reply
LaserBeams 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Pontiac has been getting more and more plasticky and blah - the Solstice is just ugly (reminds me of a TVR! *shudders*), whereas its sister, the Sky has some class. Buick has some spirit left in it, even after the dulls of the 90s. Take the Blackhawk, Velite, etc. - especially in its concepts.
Buick is probably the best thing GM has to a lower-end Cadillac, filling in the sub-30k niche for larger upscale cars - the cheapest caddy is the CTS, at over 30k. And if you think you don't see many buicks around, look again. They're everywhere, at least in Michigan, but they don't stick out.
Reply
wongoz 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
I don't understand why everyone is lumping the overseas brands in with American ones. No one here in Europe would buy those insane land barges! If people want big cars here, they want them nice, ie. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc. You can't compete here by bringing out a Malibu, it's just not gonna fly.
So lumping in Opel and Vauxhall with the others as one to kill is just retarded. The elimination of a division should be done per geographical market. Like, why does GM need to have both Opel and Vauxhall labels in the European market? They're the same cars, literally, except for the badge.
On the other hand, in the US market, you have Chevrolet, Pontiac, and probably Saturn all competing for the same buyer. I see Buick and Cadillac going for the same upscale, older consumer. And then they have both Chevy and GMC in the truck arena. Remember Oldsmobile? It IS possible to kill a brand name and still succeed.
IMO, it should be Chevy and Buick, and merge the worthy cars in those lineups into their respective market equals. The Corvette is unfortunately the one car that doesn't belong anywhere (well, it definitely would fit into the Pontiac lineup but it wouldn't "fit" into the lineup, if you know what i mean).
Those that say that Chevy buyers only buy Chevy... well, if Chevy disappears, where do you think they will go? Ford? DCX? No, they will look at Saturn or Pontiac, think it's basically the same car anyways, and off they go.
Reply
Seth L 10:59PM (12/18/2005)
Rob Emslie and wongoz both have good points.
Isuzu is doomed, and has been for a while.
Saab has been nothing but bad news, but I doubt they will harv it since it still has cachet in some areas (I could be way off here).
Vauxhall is a good bet too, since they are straight Opel rebadges.
Suzuki? They have so little brand identity, and most of their products could be absorbed into other brands, or are already represented. Could be possible.
Buick/Pontiac/Saturn? Good or bad they do have brand identity, and I think it would be a sad to lose any of them, especially as exiting new products are on the way.
Reply